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Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

Ryuu96 said:

It's not because of the grain situation although the grain situation is becoming an ugly public spat between Ukraine and Poland, in addition Poland's elections are coming up so PiS is doubling down on being shit and they were already pretty nationalistic shitheads so this argument between them and Ukraine is getting blown up.

The reason Poland claims that they've stopped deliveries, or in this case, Morawiecki claims, is because Poland have already given away most of their Soviet-era stuff to Ukraine and is now focusing on rearming itself by purchasing modern equipment and weapons from other countries such as the USA.

He made clear that the transit hub in Rzezsow will remain functional in consultation with the United States and NATO and all Western aid will still get into Ukraine through that on the same schedules. So basically, Poland simply doesn't have much else to give to Ukraine but the stop has happened amid this spat so now everyone is blaming it on the grain argument.

This grain situation isn't good though, Poland did say they wouldn't stop supporting Ukraine over something like grain but we'll see.

I admit I only glossed over what our national news outlets have written this morning, but if that's actually the primary cause of this thing this isn't much of a drama.



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Notable Development.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 21 September 2023

S.Peelman said:
Ryuu96 said:

It's not because of the grain situation although the grain situation is becoming an ugly public spat between Ukraine and Poland, in addition Poland's elections are coming up so PiS is doubling down on being shit and they were already pretty nationalistic shitheads so this argument between them and Ukraine is getting blown up.

The reason Poland claims that they've stopped deliveries, or in this case, Morawiecki claims, is because Poland have already given away most of their Soviet-era stuff to Ukraine and is now focusing on rearming itself by purchasing modern equipment and weapons from other countries such as the USA.

He made clear that the transit hub in Rzezsow will remain functional in consultation with the United States and NATO and all Western aid will still get into Ukraine through that on the same schedules. So basically, Poland simply doesn't have much else to give to Ukraine but the stop has happened amid this spat so now everyone is blaming it on the grain argument.

This grain situation isn't good though, Poland did say they wouldn't stop supporting Ukraine over something like grain but we'll see.

I admit I only glossed over what our national news outlets have written this morning, but if that's actually the primary cause of this thing this isn't much of a drama.

I think it's cause people are reporting it as "Poland stops arms deliveries to Ukraine amid grain spat" So it looks like the reason is due to the grain spat at first glance. But Poland is saying the reason is because they've sent most of what they have to Ukraine already and are now replenishing their military with modern stock.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 21 September 2023

Slovakia and Ukraine's agriculture ministers have agreed to set up a licensing system for trading in grains, which would allow a ban on imports of four Ukrainian commodities to Slovakia to be lifted once the system is set up, the Slovak Agriculture Ministry said on September 21. Ukraine also agreed to halt a complaint over the import ban that it had filed against Slovakia with the World Trade Organisation, the Slovak ministry said in an e-mailed statement. 

Slovakia, Ukraine Agree Grain Trade System To Replace Ban

Ukraine’s agriculture minister Mykola Solskyi said he and his Polish counterpart Robert Telus had “agreed to find a solution” over a stand-off that saw Poland, Hungary and Slovakia this week prolong bans on Ukrainian grain imports.

Live News: Ukraine and Poland ‘Agreed’ on Grain Solution as Slovakia Lifts Ban | Financial Times



Without naming the dead, Russia's Defense Ministry said one of its vehicles had come under small-arms fire near a Karabakh village.

However, Armenian outlets and the St. Petersburg Club of Submariners and Navy Veterans said among the dead was the deputy commander of the Northern Fleet submarine forces, Ivan Kovgan

The Kremlin said that Azerbaijan's President Ilham Aliyev had apologized for the deaths of the Russians.

Top Russian Navy Officer Among Troops Killed During Azerbaijan's Attack On Nagorno-Karabakh

"Sorry bro" Lol.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 21 September 2023

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"Due to the common, most important, goal – the defense of Europe from the aggressive expansionist policy of Russia – the differences between Ukraine and Poland should be resolved as quickly as possible. Poland's place in support is exceptional. Solutions must be found, because it would be irresponsible to further deepen the crisis,"

"As history shows, it is only through joint efforts, support and assistance to each other that we can counter the danger of an external threat.

Meanwhile, public disagreements about what the reasons for them would be, not only undermine unity, but also help the enemy's propaganda," the president emphasized.

The President has spoken to the Presidents of Ukraine and Poland about facilitating the procedures for transporting grain through Poland and increasing transit through Lithuania, thereby reducing the pressure.

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Good on Lithuanian for seemingly being an intermediary.



Ryuu96 said:

Responding to the questions.

1. ATACMS is a missile for the M270 MLRS and the M142 HIMARS. Ukraine employs both of these in the battlefield already in significant numbers.

2. Yes, I would assume so, there are a lot of HIMARS and MLRS in the battlefield and they wouldn't cannibalize Storm Shadow as ATACMS is a ground launched only missile from the HIMARS/MLRS systems whilst Storm Shadow is a air launched missile only from a fighter jet. They're both long range missiles but completely different in how they're deployed (and work, Storm Shadow should be harder to intercept).

3. I would say yes, considering all the strikes Ukraine has been doing on key targets but with such a limited number they likely have to be extremely careful on picking their targets. In addition, they may be scenarios where using ATACMS may be preferable to using Storm Shadow and vice versa, such as taking into account the ability to intercept, Storm Shadow is harder so it may be saved for the most valuable targets.

Using Storm Shadow on places such as Crimea is also more dangerous as well as it has to be lobbed from a jet, which means a very valuable asset has to fly close to the frontlines for certain parts of Crimea, putting them at risk of Russia's anti-air defences. HIMARS hasn't really had this issue, they've been employed near the frontlines a lot because it's easy to "shoot and run" with them.

At current frontlines, Storm Shadow can't reach all of Crimea, ATACMS can.

4. Has France not sent SCALP? I don't know if that's true or not, as I've seen speculation in past strikes on Russia whether it was Storm Shadow or SCALP, it's hard to tell as they are exactly the same missile, the only difference is how they fit onto a jet. So honestly some of these Storm Shadow strikes could be SCALP.

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Now I understand with other equipment the issue of training but it ain't even that, often these countries are spending months of debate over whether to send something and then they begin the training, instead of beginning the training from the very start, if we didn't spend months of stupid debating over sending Ukraine things like tanks and instead started the training ASAP then they would have had them far sooner.

I'm not saying that the west hasn't done a lot, because we have, there are things that pre-war I would have doubted the west would have cared enough about Ukraine to send but we could still be doing a lot better than we are and moving a lot quicker than we currently are, the west is often reacting to Russia instead of taking the lead.

My questions were more rhetorical meant to highlight the fact that such questions may exist without them being anything exhaustive or accurate.

I agree with you on pretty much every point I just feel like I lack information to know with a satisfying accuracy. The publicly stated reasons are just so bad that I feel we're missing something or something is purposefully hidden.



So where would the grain normally go if they could use the black sea? Assuming it would end up in Europe, what does it matter if by land or sea? They worried a black market will happen in those other countries?



 

 

Cobretti2 said:

So where would the grain normally go if they could use the black sea? Assuming it would end up in Europe, what does it matter if by land or sea? They worried a black market will happen in those other countries?

It would go straight out of the Black Sea, then to the relevant markets.

Poland, Slovakia and Hungary don't want cheap grain going through their countries because they say it will harm their own farmers.

It seems as though Poland and Slovakia are fixing the issue now though.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 21 September 2023

So the four Russian officers killed by Azerbaijani forces yesterday after their car was shot included one Captain, one Lt. Colonel, and two Colonels.

Reactions from Russians are obviously furious, recognising that nothing is being done about this by the Russian leadership.

Russians exhibiting the usual slave-like behaviour despite being actually mad.

It was actually 4 Russian officers that got clapped by Azerbaijan 💀💀💀