This iteration of Tekken hasn't seen a bit of hype. Most people don't even realize it's coming out since the arcade scene outside of Japan is dead. I didn't mean nobody knows the Tekken series, just that they don't know this game is seeing release and/or forgot all about it. It's also being grossly overshadowed by Namco with Soulcalibur IV.

I already made it clear as did someone else in this topic that Resistance 2 did not make the cut. While Insomniac is in fact a great developer, Resistance 1 got barely edged out by MechAssault and thus ended up as #21.

Left 4 Dead is not developed by Valve, it's developed by Turtle Rock Studios whose only other credit is Counter-Strike: Condition Zero which is rated at 66.3% on Gamerankings.

About Gran Turismo, if you mean Prologue, Gamerankings doesn't record it's data for some reason, but Metacritic has it at 81% which isn't even close to making this list. If you mean Gran Turismo 5, it's coming out in 2009, so welcome to last month. 

 Will not make it..

Ah, ok. It's just that it came in the response to my post, so I thought it had been directed to me. But seeing koopa's post, it was more like a preventive measure (but seemed to fail, since it was ignored by koopa, lol). 

I understand about the excess work doing PSP/DS (although I'm not quite clear why you would have to include PC along with these 2. If anything, PC ought to be included with PS3/360/wii). Mayhaps someone else would be so kind to do another comparison with PSP/DS?

With GT5 P, fair enough.

With R2, why is R1 the only reference to Insomniac's quality but in other games on the list, more than one game was considered or older games were considered and newer ones left out or games were averaged out. Seems arbitrary.

As for Valve and Turtle Rock, Turtle Rock is part of Valve so Valve's game developer rep should be reflected.

Only one games was considered based on two scores and that game was Fallout 3. My logic was that I couldn't use Fallout 1's score entirely because the IP was sold to Bethesda and I couldn't use Elder Scrolls IV because this is Fallout which has it's own history, so I averaged out the two and came to a middle ground. I felt it was a fair assessment. As far as older games being used, I only did that in cases where it was a first in a series, like Fracture, Alan Wake, Borderlands, etc. I used the most relevant score I could find. I openly called for anyone to call me on it if they felt a better score could represent any game on this list.

What other score would you have me use other than Resistance 1? It's the most accurate account of where the game should lie on this list. I did the same for Gears of War 2. If there's a better score I should use, you let me know. What older game should I use for Resistance 2 though? A Ratchet and Clank score? That doesn't really seem to fit.

As far as Turtle Rock, I'm aware they are a developer at Valve, but just like Intelligent Systems at Nintendo, Clover at Capcom and AM2 at Sega, I'm going to judge that individual developer regardless of the fact that they are part of a larger whole. Turtle Rock has yet to prove themselves as they got slammed on their first effort on Counter-Strike: Condition Zero. That is pretty black and white. I'm not going to put it up with Half-Life 2's score because as far as I can tell, it's a different team doing it.

Turtle Rock wasn't part of Valve when they released that game, but I see where you are coming from.

Fallout 3, I don't think Fallout 1 should be considered at all, but solely Oblivion. Fallout 3 only shares an IP with older Fallout games, it's much more like Oblivion and Bethesda were not involved in Fallout.

I dunno if the selection of MGS 2, SC II and GTA III is more valid than just putting the latest games in the series but that's debatable I guess.

If two games that are completely unrelated and not from the same developer (Fallout+Oblivion) can be put together to come up with Fallout 3 score, then 2 completely unrelated games from the same developer should qualify too (Ratchet/Resistance) .

But hey it's your list didn't mean to come off as mean.

I'll consider bumping Fallout 3 up to it's Oblivion score solely as I see your point in the matter. Every Fllout fan on this board has said themselves that Bethesda is basically Oblivionizing Fallout 3, so if the shoe fits...

Here's my reasoning on the three games you mentioned, and you be the judge:

MGS4 using MGS2 because MGS4 is the direct sequel of MGS2 and features all reocurring characters and plot points from 2, and because both overhauled the gameplay which MGS3 never did, plus all of MGS3's advancements like camo and eating are not in this game.

SCIV using SCII because Namco has said they fixed the balancing issues of SCIII and also because just like SCII, SCIV features console specific special characters. Yoda and Vader this time around and Heiachi, Link and Spawn last time around. I'm not using the original Soul Calibur for Dreamcast score, because no SC will ever be so highly received again by critics.

GTAIV using GTAIII basically because both take place in Liberty City. I wrestled with using San Andreas but figued it doesn't matter anyways, because GTAIV is already #1 on the list and San Andreas score would only push it higher into the 95 percentile.

If I combine scores from Ratchet and Resistance, then I need to start combining a lot of score on this list. Gears 2 would need to be a combo of Unreal Tournament and Gears of War scores, Tekken and Soul Calibur would need to combine scores, Banjo would need a combo of any of 20 some odd Rare games from the last 12 years, etc. It would just get out of hand. I know Resistance 2 will be higher this year than the 21st best game, but judging on gamerankings criteria, it's just never going to get any higher than where it's at until release.