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Forums - Gaming - How do the visuals on the Nintendo Switch compare to those of the Xbox 360 & PS3?

 

The Nintendo Switch hardware is...

A big leap over 7th gen 71 40.11%
 
A minor leap over 7th gen 72 40.68%
 
About the same as 7th gen 24 13.56%
 
Actually WORSE than last gen 10 5.65%
 
Total:177
OTBWY said:
quickrick said:

heh you are the first person i heard say this, even a developer who is a huge nintendo fan BTW, say's other wise. I mean just look at zelda on wiiu when it goes in karoki forest it doesn't have nearly as much as going as GTAV, yet its start running at 20fps, here is whattaht developer said in regards to GTAV port on switch, and switch has a much better cpu then WII u.

"GTA5 has lots of simulated people and lots of cars and lots of other simulated systems running concurrently. The city feels alive. PS2 would never been able to achieve that. Last gen console versions had much less cars and people on the streets. You can't really simulate rush hour traffic without being able to simulate enough cars. Highways simply don't have enough cars in the last gen version to cause traffic jams. The city feels less alive. 

Haven't got experience from Switch, but 3x ARM cores are likely a significant downgrade compared to 7x x64 cores for this kind of highly parallel city simulation workload."

You see, this is why people accuse you of cherrypicking. GTA V on 7th gen console dip below 30 constantly. The PS3 version almost never stays 30 during driving of all things. Since you love DF so much: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPzMZ_Cz7iI Most of the fps issues you mentioned on the Switch have been patched away already. Repeating "but b-but korok forest" doesn't change the fact that BotW is stable throughout, while GTA V on last gen is not. The visuals and IQ (lol) of BotW and GTA V is nothing but subjective because of the difference between artistic choices. Breath of the Wild has a different style of visual artstyle which emphasizes brighter and more vibrant colours. The amount of assets, even the fields with many blades of grass, is much more than any version on the PS3 or the 360 can handle in a playable form.

frame rate was only improved in the switch version, not the wiiu. this isn't going no where, until there is zelda port on ps3/360 or GTAV port on wiiu, this is all baseless speculation, and a waste of time. 



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quickrick said:
OTBWY said:

You see, this is why people accuse you of cherrypicking. GTA V on 7th gen console dip below 30 constantly. The PS3 version almost never stays 30 during driving of all things. Since you love DF so much: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPzMZ_Cz7iI Most of the fps issues you mentioned on the Switch have been patched away already. Repeating "but b-but korok forest" doesn't change the fact that BotW is stable throughout, while GTA V on last gen is not. The visuals and IQ (lol) of BotW and GTA V is nothing but subjective because of the difference between artistic choices. Breath of the Wild has a different style of visual artstyle which emphasizes brighter and more vibrant colours. The amount of assets, even the fields with many blades of grass, is much more than any version on the PS3 or the 360 can handle in a playable form.

frame rate was only improved in the switch version, not the wiiu.

Which only further proves the point lol.



quickrick said:

heh you are the first person i heard say this, even a developer who is a huge nintendo fan BTW, say's other wise. I mean just look at zelda on wiiu when it goes in karoki forest it doesn't have nearly as much as going as GTAV, yet its start running at 20fps, here is whattaht developer said in regards to GTAV port on switch, and switch has a much better cpu then WII u.

"GTA5 has lots of simulated people and lots of cars and lots of other simulated systems running concurrently. The city feels alive. PS2 would never been able to achieve that. Last gen console versions had much less cars and people on the streets. You can't really simulate rush hour traffic without being able to simulate enough cars. Highways simply don't have enough cars in the last gen version to cause traffic jams. The city feels less alive. 

Haven't got experience from Switch, but 3x ARM cores are likely a significant downgrade compared to 7x x64 cores for this kind of highly parallel city simulation workload."

All the guy you quoted essentially said is that the PS2 wouldn't be able to handle GTA V's traffic system. That is a pretty low bar though. The traffic system of GTA V is good enough for what it is intending to do (add a layer of complexity to a sandbox.) It's not spectacular when compared to real city simulation games though, but nobody expects it to be. Noticed how his quote doesn't really talk about the behavior of individual cars, and more speaks about the emergent behavior of having many of them. The actual decisions made by the individual cars with respect to the greater traffic hasn't changed much though, which is quite a different thing from games which focus very much on traffic simulations. 

I am a bit baffled at what he means by "but 3x ARM cores are likely a significant downgrade compared to 7x x64 cores for this kind of highly parallel city simulation workload" when as far as I recall the traffic system wasn't upgraded in the 8th generation remasters. If the 360's in-order Xenon can handle it the Switch's CPU certainly can, in handheld or docked mode. 

As for "lots of other simulated systems running concurrently" I don't disagree, GTA V does have many systems, but SO DOES  BOTW. 

Your Korok Forest example is illustrative of this. It is highly dense in grass geometry, which is all affected by the wind system. I can definitely see why this setting is memory and cpu intensive. 



OTBWY said:
quickrick said:

frame rate was only improved in the switch version, not the wiiu.

Which only further proves the point lol.

you have no point, every single open world games ran much better on 360/ps3, there was even a developer that said wiiu cpu was weak, and when lot of enemies coming at you at once, the performance tends to be affected because of the CPU. you running around telling people zelda cant run on ps3/360 is baseless speculation, and wrong. anyway this isn't going no where, until there is zelda port on ps3/360 or GTAV port this is a waste of time.



sc94597 said:
quickrick said:

heh you are the first person i heard say this, even a developer who is a huge nintendo fan BTW, say's other wise. I mean just look at zelda on wiiu when it goes in karoki forest it doesn't have nearly as much as going as GTAV, yet its start running at 20fps, here is whattaht developer said in regards to GTAV port on switch, and switch has a much better cpu then WII u.

"GTA5 has lots of simulated people and lots of cars and lots of other simulated systems running concurrently. The city feels alive. PS2 would never been able to achieve that. Last gen console versions had much less cars and people on the streets. You can't really simulate rush hour traffic without being able to simulate enough cars. Highways simply don't have enough cars in the last gen version to cause traffic jams. The city feels less alive. 

Haven't got experience from Switch, but 3x ARM cores are likely a significant downgrade compared to 7x x64 cores for this kind of highly parallel city simulation workload."

All the guy you quoted essentially said is that the PS2 wouldn't be able to handle GTA V's traffic system. That is a pretty low bar though. The traffic system of GTA V is good enough for what it is intending to do (add a layer of complexity to a sandbox.) It's not spectacular when compared to real city simulation games though, but nobody expects it to be. Noticed how his quote doesn't really talk about the behavior of individual cars, and more speaks about the emergent behavior of having many of them. The actual decisions made by the individual cars with respect to the greater traffic hasn't changed much though, which is quite a different thing from games which focus very much on traffic simulations. 

I am a bit baffled at what he means by "but 3x ARM cores are likely a significant downgrade compared to 7x x64 cores for this kind of highly parallel city simulation workload" when as far as I recall the traffic system wasn't upgraded in the 8th generation remasters. If the 360's in-order Xenon can handle it the Switch's CPU certainly can, in handheld or docked mode. 

As for "lots of other simulated systems running concurrently" I don't disagree, GTA V does have many systems, but SO DOES  BOTW. 

Your Korok Forest example is illustrative of this. It is highly dense in grass geometry, which is all affected by the wind system. I can definitely see why this setting is memory and cpu intensive. 

it's impossible to know how many things a game is doing under the hood. hard to compare games until they are both on the same systems, but just using common sense, making a living  breathing realistic city with traffic is gonna be way more demanding then a open world cell shaded game in the forest. as for  the developer he says there is way more traffic in the next gen versions, which would be too taxing for switch CPU.  he also compares 360/ps3 cpu vs switch.

 

t would be highly dependent on the code they are running.

"Cell and Xenon are good in highly optimized SIMD code. Xenon = 3 cores at 3.2 GHz, four multiply-adds per cycle (76.8 GFLOP/s). That's significantly higher theoretical peak than the 4x ARM cores on Switch can achieve. But obviously it can never reach this peak. You can't assume that multiply-add is the most common instruction (see Broadwell vs Ryzen SIMD benchmarks for further proof). Also Xenon vector pipelines were very long, so you had to unroll huge loops to reach good perf with it. Branching and indexing based on vector math results was horrible (~40 cycle stall to move data between register files). ARM NEON is a much better instruction set and OoO and data prefetch helps even in SIMD code.

If you compare them in standard C/C++ game code, ARM and Jaguar both stomp over the old PPC cores. I remember that it was common consensus that the IPC in generic code was around 0.2. So both Jaguar and ARM should be 5x+ faster per clock than those PPC cores (IIRC Jaguar average IPC was around 1.0 in some real life code benchmark, this ARM core should be close). However you can also write low level optimized game code for PPC, so it all depends on how much resources you had to optimize and rewrite the code. Luckily those days are a thing of the past. I don't want to remember all those ugly hacks we had around the code base to make the code run "well enough". The most painful thing was that CPU didn't have a data prefetcher. So you had to know around 2000 cycles in advance which memory regions your future code is going to access, and prefetch that data to cache. If you didn't do this, you would get 600 cycle stalls on memory loads. Those PPC cores couldn't even prefetch linear arrays."



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quickrick said:
Miyamotoo said:

Yeah, people forgetting that we still talking only about Switch 1st year games, later games will be more advanced and more impressive, and tend to forget those PS3 games are only 720p/30fps games.

 

And yet Bayonetta 2 looks quite impressive on Wii U, Bayonetta 3 will look much better on Switch off course.

 

Totally wrong, you don't have idea how much technically BotW is advanced and how many effects game has.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/zelda-breath-of-the-wild-the-technical-analysis.8197/

you can do the same for almost any technically impressive looking if you wanna list every effect it does, that doesn't impress me. i'm not saying zelda is not impressive, but its obvious that a living breathing city with traffic, and NPC every where is gonna way more demanding then empty looking forest areas, and on top of that it has better graphics.

First you take look on that list, most of those things dont exist on in GTA V on PS3/360, those are quite impressive and advance things for Wii U hadware not to mentione PS3/360 hadware that older. Empty forest areas!? So we ignoring huge wild life of Zelda BotW with small and big animals, bugs, enemies, lakes, rivers..!? You also ignoring fact that huge BotW world is made in way that player have huge physics based interaction with that same huge world (setting grass on fire, spreading fire in direction of wind, wind that effects on cloud formation, wind that affects player and enemies, lightning that's attracted by metal and that can set of fire grass, cutting trees that fail and water and continue floating in water, very impressive AI of enemies, pounds that grows/vanishing based on weather effects...) all those things are very demanding.

 

quickrick said:
sc94597 said:

You'll need to substantiate a few of these statements with some details.  

GTAV (like all city-based sandboxes with many people walking about) cuts quite a few corners when it comes to "simulations". The AI, like in every other game, is just varying complexities of conditional statements prescribing a small subset of pseudo-random scripted paths, much of the heavy computational work doesn't occur until you interact with them. So sure, there are many dozens of people on the screen, but the five to ten you're interacting with are taking up more of the computational work than all of the others walking about their scripts in the background. Breath of the Wild's analog to this is its wildlife (foxes, fish, birds, etc.) So really the bulk of computations for both games (GTA and BoTW) are being produced by the immediate enemies and persons with whom you interact. The question then is, how taxing are the individual interactions themselves?

Where the heavy computational work comes about is in things like dynamic weather, car collisions, fire, explosions, particle effects, magnetism, kinematic approximations, dynamic approximations, etc.  There is nothing quite spectactular about GTA V's implementation of these things, and it's not as if BoTW doesn't have a dynamic physics or weather system of its own. In fact, in many ways there are more things happening in BoTW at once in certain circumstances (such a dynamic system of wind, combined with simulated fire, and its effects on nearby enemies during combat while calculating the kinematics and dynamics of the physical interactions between enemies.) 

One of the more taxing intersection of simulations in the Wii U version of Breath of the Wild is using the fire rod to burn grass while the dynamic wind system blows (see: below.) 


compare it to GTA V's implementation 

 

Shading and lighting-wise Breath of the Wild is definitely a level above GTA V (on 360) in most circumstances.

Image-quality wise they are the same, both 720p titles with post-processing anti-aliasing, both have crappy texture filtering. 

In terms of texture-quality the games are comparable too. 

The Wii U probably would have no problems handling GTAV, in some situations better and in others worse depending on whether or not the specific technical feature is CPU-bottlenecked or memory-bottlenecked. On the other-hand, due to memory limitations I don't think the PS360 can run Breath of the Wild without large concessions. That was the major bottleneck for even the Wii U version of the game. 

i disagree here big time, shading and lighting look better in GTAV, textures as well, IQ easily goes to GTAV, just look at the pics, the IQ in zelda is horrible on wiiu. look at zelda  on wiiu as soon as it goes in densely populated  are like karoki forest which doesn't even compare to GTAV city, frame rate starts to hit 20 fps for long periods.

Talking about shading and lighting, you dont know what are you talking about, if you looked at link that I post you would see yourself. Textures are better in GTAV beacuse good textures tend to look better in city avirmant compared to wild world...but world of Zelda BotW is much more bigger and its physics based and its heavily interactive world, so it's much more demanding. Korok Forest has FPS isuses, but GTAV on PS3/360 also are very is often below 30 FPS.

Talking about lighting, shading and effets:



Miyamotoo said:
quickrick said:

you can do the same for almost any technically impressive looking if you wanna list every effect it does, that doesn't impress me. i'm not saying zelda is not impressive, but its obvious that a living breathing city with traffic, and NPC every where is gonna way more demanding then empty looking forest areas, and on top of that it has better graphics.

First you take look on that list, most of those things dont exist on in GTA V on PS3/360, those are quite impressive and advance things for Wii U hadware not to mentione PS3/360 hadware that older. Empty forest areas!? So we ignoring huge wild life of Zelda BotW with small and big animals, bugs, enemies, lakes, rivers..!? You also ignoring fact that huge BotW world is made in way that player have huge physics based interaction with that same huge world (setting grass on fire, spreading fire in direction of wind, wind that effects on cloud formation, wind that affects player and enemies, lightning that's attracted by metal and that can set of fire grass, cutting trees that fail and water and continue floating in water, very impressive AI of enemies, pounds that grows/vanishing based on weather effects...) all those things are very demanding.

 

quickrick said:

i disagree here big time, shading and lighting look better in GTAV, textures as well, IQ easily goes to GTAV, just look at the pics, the IQ in zelda is horrible on wiiu. look at zelda  on wiiu as soon as it goes in densely populated  are like karoki forest which doesn't even compare to GTAV city, frame rate starts to hit 20 fps for long periods.

Talking about shading and lighting, you dont know what are you talking about, if you looked at link that I post you would see yourself. Textures are better in GTAV beacuse good textures tend to look better in city avirmant compared to wild world...but world of Zelda BotW is much more bigger and its physics based and its heavily interactive world, so it's much more demanding. Korok Forest has FPS isuses, but GTAV on PS3/360 also are very is often below 30 FPS.

Talking about lighting, shading and effets:

why would i care what this poster has to say, show me what a developer has to say not some nintendo fanboy, thats looks for anyhting impressive in only nintendo games and makes it seem bigger then it is. i know this poster by the way, until he starts video of other impressive games why would i care about what he says.



quickrick said:
Miyamotoo said:

First you take look on that list, most of those things dont exist on in GTA V on PS3/360, those are quite impressive and advance things for Wii U hadware not to mentione PS3/360 hadware that older. Empty forest areas!? So we ignoring huge wild life of Zelda BotW with small and big animals, bugs, enemies, lakes, rivers..!? You also ignoring fact that huge BotW world is made in way that player have huge physics based interaction with that same huge world (setting grass on fire, spreading fire in direction of wind, wind that effects on cloud formation, wind that affects player and enemies, lightning that's attracted by metal and that can set of fire grass, cutting trees that fail and water and continue floating in water, very impressive AI of enemies, pounds that grows/vanishing based on weather effects...) all those things are very demanding.

 

Talking about shading and lighting, you dont know what are you talking about, if you looked at link that I post you would see yourself. Textures are better in GTAV beacuse good textures tend to look better in city avirmant compared to wild world...but world of Zelda BotW is much more bigger and its physics based and its heavily interactive world, so it's much more demanding. Korok Forest has FPS isuses, but GTAV on PS3/360 also are very is often below 30 FPS.

Talking about lighting, shading and effets:

why would i care what this poster has to say, show me what a developer has to say not some nintendo fanboy, thats looks for anyhting impressive in a nintedo game and makes it seem bigger then it is. i know this poster by the way.

Because he knows what he talking about and he is not Nintendo fanboy (I dont see why you think on first place thats Nintendo fanboy!?). You dont need to read anuthing, just look videos on links and you will get picture, links that I posted look very impresive for GTAV 360/PS3, GTAV on 360/PS3 dont have most of things that he mentioned.



quickrick said:
OTBWY said:

Which only further proves the point lol.

you have no point, every single open world games ran much better on 360/ps3, there was even a developer that said wiiu cpu was weak, and when lot of enemies coming at you at once, the performance tends to be affected because of the CPU. you running around telling people zelda cant run on ps3/360 is baseless speculation, and wrong. anyway this isn't going no where, until there is zelda port on ps3/360 or GTAV port this is a waste of time.


"This isn't going no where"

It's been going nowhere ever since you entered the thread mate. I think you need to actually calm down "kid" and read the thread title to know why the point has been made. I even used the typical console warz DF video as a counterargument that basically disproves what you said and keep repeating. You cherrypick certain aspects to fit your argument and never actually source (what developer?). Now, like I said, have that seat.

Last edited by OTBWY - on 27 January 2018

Nothing going on in Korok's forest lol... Have you seen how incredibly dense, detailed and dynamic the foliage is in that particular area? It's not because GTA V has flat grass textures and 2D trees and what not that every game stoops that low. ;)



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