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Forums - PC - Persona 5 is almost perfect now on PC using latest version of RPCS3.

Cerebralbore101 said:
VGPolyglot said:

"by voting with our wallets" you mean by...not buying it? If so, it sounds like piracy is actually the way to go, that way we can show them that putting in DRM is not going to stop piracy anyway, so they'll just give in and relent, and we get consumers' rights back!

lol no I mean by choosing to buy another company's products. CEO's aren't bright enough to see it that way anyway. 

I guess I just don't see companies/corporations as a benevolent entity.



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Azuren said:
Jranation said:

Right! I bet its the same people whowants Nintendo to go third party. 

Who in their right mind would want that?

People that don't know how easy Nintendo has it with their streamlined development pipeline, and huge profits from being the publisher, developer, and console holder of a game. When you control every aspect of the development pipeline your games get made quicker, and are on budget. Going third party mucks that pipeline up. When you own the console rights, and are the publisher and developer you made triple the money on game sales, since there are less middlemen. Third party developers have to pay console fees, and publisher fees. That eats away at their profits. Some third party games only make $10 per $60 game sold. 



VGPolyglot said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

lol no I mean by choosing to buy another company's products. CEO's aren't bright enough to see it that way anyway. 

I guess I just don't see companies/corporations as a benevolent entity.

Neither do I. Even Nintendo is guilty of a little shenanigens this generation. 



Oh, I missed this thread. Blah blah whatever I said in the BotW emulation thread. Whatever, if you want to play last gen ports upscaled to 4K, as long as you have the game and ps3, why not. Just don't distribute the game files or ps3 bios.

I've moved onto VR, hack away on those old 2D games. The sooner they go the way of the Dodo the better :p



Cerebralbore101 said:
Zkuq said:

They're not distributing it though. The user must provide it. Technically emulators aren't even dependent on actual firmware code; anything that provides similar functionality will most likely do. Thus the whole situation reduces to whether copyright (or rather, fair use, it seems) applies to APIs, to which the answer is no (see Oracle vs. Google). As far as my sense of justice is concerned, that is exactly the right decision. I don't know if there's any exceptions to this, but at least PCSX2 and RPCS3 work that way, and I would imagine others do too to avoid problems with copyright laws.

Yeah that ruling got changed by a higher court. https://www.cnet.com/news/court-sides-with-oracle-over-android-in-java-patent-appeal/

Your source is old, the latest ruling was in favour of Google.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/05/google-wins-trial-against-oracle-as-jury-finds-android-is-fair-use/



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Leadified said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Right, but that's not the arguement people are making. They are saying that emulation is absolutely nesseccary for games preservation. But clearly it's not. 

The argument is for preserving software, not hardware. Obscure DOS and Atari games are prone to be lost due to lack of records not unlike early movies, without digital preservation virtually all of those game would have been lost.

Explain how modern emulation is absolutely nesseccary to preserve software. I understand that eventually we will need to rip discs/carts to preserve them, but not *now*. And ripping a cart/disc isn't the same as emulation. Yes, those Atari games were saved by digital preservation, but it was because of people that did it decades after the fact. Those Atari games weren't saved by some guy in his basement in 1972 that ripped and emulated carts on his PC, so that he could sell bootleg copies behind the Kwik-E-Mart. Modern movies aren't being saved by that guy you know that will burn twelve children's movies onto DVD for $5. They were saved by some guy in the 90's or 2000's doing it with his own collection. They will be saved by somebody in 2020 burning his obscure children's DVD collection to his harddrive. 

Do you get what I'm saying here? Modern piracy has nothing to do with game preservation, and to pretend that it does is absurd for obvious reasons. See my Winds of Winter example above. 



Cerebralbore101 said:
Leadified said:

The argument is for preserving software, not hardware. Obscure DOS and Atari games are prone to be lost due to lack of records not unlike early movies, without digital preservation virtually all of those game would have been lost.

Explain how modern emulation is absolutely nesseccary to preserve software. I understand that eventually we will need to rip discs/carts to preserve them, but not *now*. And ripping a cart/disc isn't the same as emulation. Yes, those Atari games were saved by digital preservation, but it was because of people that did it decades after the fact. Those Atari games weren't saved by some guy in his basement in 1972 that ripped and emulated carts on his PC, so that he could sell bootleg copies behind the Kwik-E-Mart. Modern movies aren't being saved by that guy you know that will burn twelve children's movies onto DVD for $5. They were saved by some guy in the 90's or 2000's doing it with his own collection. They will be saved by somebody in 2020 burning his obscure children's DVD collection to his harddrive. 

Do you get what I'm saying here? Modern piracy has nothing to do with game preservation, and to pretend that it does is absurd for obvious reasons. See my Winds of Winter example above. 

The longer we wait, the higher of a risk there is of games being lost. Some games are already very rare, and if we decide to wait until as late as possible, they may already be lost. There are retro games that still haven't been dumped yet, and if we waited until 2060 or whatever, it'll probably be too late. That's why we should start as soon as possible.



Leadified said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Yeah that ruling got changed by a higher court. https://www.cnet.com/news/court-sides-with-oracle-over-android-in-java-patent-appeal/

Your source is old, the latest ruling was in favour of Google.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/05/google-wins-trial-against-oracle-as-jury-finds-android-is-fair-use/

-_- That's what I get for using Wikipedia. 

But how exactly is this fair use? 

fair use
noun
  
  1. (in US copyright law) the doctrine that brief excerpts of copyright material may, under certain circumstances, be quoted verbatim for purposes such as criticism, news reporting, teaching, and research, without the need for permission from or payment to the copyright holder.
How exactly does using an API fall under criticism, news reporting, teaching, or research?
Protip: It doesn't. 


VGPolyglot said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Explain how modern emulation is absolutely nesseccary to preserve software. I understand that eventually we will need to rip discs/carts to preserve them, but not *now*. And ripping a cart/disc isn't the same as emulation. Yes, those Atari games were saved by digital preservation, but it was because of people that did it decades after the fact. Those Atari games weren't saved by some guy in his basement in 1972 that ripped and emulated carts on his PC, so that he could sell bootleg copies behind the Kwik-E-Mart. Modern movies aren't being saved by that guy you know that will burn twelve children's movies onto DVD for $5. They were saved by some guy in the 90's or 2000's doing it with his own collection. They will be saved by somebody in 2020 burning his obscure children's DVD collection to his harddrive. 

Do you get what I'm saying here? Modern piracy has nothing to do with game preservation, and to pretend that it does is absurd for obvious reasons. See my Winds of Winter example above. 

The longer we wait, the higher of a risk there is of games being lost. Some games are already very rare, and if we decide to wait until as late as possible, they may already be lost. There are retro games that still haven't been dumped yet, and if we waited until 2060 or whatever, it'll probably be too late. That's why we should start as soon as possible.

So every game should be ripped at launch or else we risk losing games? Can you give an example of a game that was lost because it wasn't copied to a harddrive within five years of release? More importantly, can you give an example of a *good* game that was lost due to not being copied within five years of release?



Cerebralbore101 said:
VGPolyglot said:

The longer we wait, the higher of a risk there is of games being lost. Some games are already very rare, and if we decide to wait until as late as possible, they may already be lost. There are retro games that still haven't been dumped yet, and if we waited until 2060 or whatever, it'll probably be too late. That's why we should start as soon as possible.

So every game should be ripped at launch or else we risk losing games? Can you give an example of a game that was lost because it wasn't copied to a harddrive within five years of release? More importantly, can you give an example of a *good* game that was lost due to not being copied within five years of release?

Here's a list I found right here:

http://lostmediawiki.com/Category:Lost_video_games

And the question of whether or not the games are good, is irrelevant.