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Forums - Gaming - Sony: MS "punched themselves out of the fight"

bobobologna said:
I think MikeB is right. 1080p was never officially designated as being 1920x1080. Of course, this causes a ton of confusion, and which is why they have created designations like HD Ready 1080p TVs (must be 1920x1080, must support HDCP, etc). And that's why the marketing buzzword FullHD was created, to separate 1920x1080 from other 1080p TVs. Early DLP 1080p TVs were 1280x1080.

If you can find me an example of this, I would be very interested in seeing it. All I'm finding is 1080i sets.




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MikeB said:
rocketpig said:
Oy. It's been proven that it doesn't actually render 1920x1080. It's 1280x1080. You know that.

But that's what you asked for. 1080p game rendering in lower than 1920x1080.

Sony and all the game companies involved can market their game as 1080p, as their games are rendering in 1080p. Feel free to try to sue them, you will loose.


So you're basically saying that despite Sony's lies and after they have been proven wrong, you will listen to them no matter what. Congratulations.




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They should have said blew their load, would have worked better with the gamer demographic.

360 did all the big things it was ever gonna do already, now its a matter of how long it stays relevant in the market.



Maybe I am too late and this argument over but I didn't feel like reading the endless threads between Mike B and RocketPig.

http://www.atsc.org/standards/a_63.pdf

Table 1 Standardized Video Input Formats
Video standard Active lines Active samples/ line
SMPTE 274M 1080 1920
SMPTE 296M 720 1280
ITU-R BT.601-4 576 720

5.1.2 Compression format constraints
Table 3 lists the allowed compression formats.
Table 3 Compression Format Constraints
vertical_size_
value
horizontal_size_
value
aspect_ratio_
information
frame_rate_
code
progressive_
sequence
10802 1920 1,3 3 0,1
720 1280 1,3 3,6 1
720 2,3 3,6 1
3 0
576 544
480 2,3 3 0,1
352
288 352 2,3 3 1
Legend for MPEG-2 coded values in Table 3
aspect_ratio_information 1 = square samples 2 = 4:3 display aspect ratio 3 = 16:9 display aspect ratio
frame_rate_code 3 = 25 Hz 6 = 50 Hz
progressive_sequence 0 = interlaced scan 1 = progressive scan

1080P is a ATSC standard. In fact it is the only HD standard that does not require overscan(the reason 1366x768 is 720P). Overscan is for CRT monitors. You have what is called a Title safe area which is where all TVs will show regardless ofoverscan itself.
1080P and 1080i are also market buzzwords. A hell of a nice prosumer camera the XL-H1 claims to be 1080i but in fact upscales to it(not quite as simple as that as what is actualy going on has to do with green CCD but that is a bit much to go into for this post).

Upscaling is fine. But Mike you have to stop drinking the Sony Kool Aid. The two systems are about equaly powerful and the difference between the two isn't even like the XBOX and PS2 last year it is in fact much less.

MikeB please don't talk about video unless you actually work with it.



redspear said:
Maybe I am too late and this argument over but I didn't feel like reading the endless threads between Mike B and RocketPig.

http://www.atsc.org/standards/a_63.pdf

Table 1 Standardized Video Input Formats
Video standard Active lines Active samples/ line
SMPTE 274M 1080 1920
SMPTE 296M 720 1280
ITU-R BT.601-4 576 720

5.1.2 Compression format constraints
Table 3 lists the allowed compression formats.
Table 3 Compression Format Constraints
vertical_size_
value
horizontal_size_
value
aspect_ratio_
information
frame_rate_
code
progressive_
sequence
10802 1920 1,3 3 0,1
720 1280 1,3 3,6 1
720 2,3 3,6 1
3 0
576 544
480 2,3 3 0,1
352
288 352 2,3 3 1
Legend for MPEG-2 coded values in Table 3
aspect_ratio_information 1 = square samples 2 = 4:3 display aspect ratio 3 = 16:9 display aspect ratio
frame_rate_code 3 = 25 Hz 6 = 50 Hz
progressive_sequence 0 = interlaced scan 1 = progressive scan

1080P is a ATSC standard. In fact it is the only HD standard that does not require overscan(the reason 1366x768 is 720P). Overscan is for CRT monitors. You have what is called a Title safe area which is where all TVs will show regardless ofoverscan itself.
1080P and 1080i are also market buzzwords. A hell of a nice prosumer camera the XL-H1 claims to be 1080i but in fact upscales to it(not quite as simple as that as what is actualy going on has to do with green CCD but that is a bit much to go into for this post).

Upscaling is fine. But Mike you have to stop drinking the Sony Kool Aid. The two systems are about equaly powerful and the difference between the two isn't even like the XBOX and PS2 last year it is in fact much less.

MikeB please don't talk about video unless you actually work with it.

Thank you. I am by no means an expert on video but I've done a fair amount of research on it and do a bit of low-end editing in my current job.




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@ RocketPig

So you're basically saying that despite Sony's lies and after they have been proven wrong, you will listen to them no matter what. Congratulations.


Sony and all those 3rd party companies don't lie.

The end of this discussion:

50" HD1080 Plasma HDTV
http://www.hitachi.us/Apps/hitachicom/content.jsp?page=products/plasma_tvs/details/P50T501.html&level=2&section=products&parent=plasma_tvs&nav=left&path=jsp/hitachi/forhome/ubcg/&nId=iD
"1080P Compatible" (1280 x 1080)

You asked me provide this and then you'll "shut up". IMO the time is ripe (was funny though, thanks for that).

Modern sets will probably all support FullHD as the technology is there, mass production of TV panels is cheaper and these are now in mass production due to Blu-Ray movies rendering in this resolution.



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Isamu said:
MikeB said:

@ RocketPig

"The F38310 is a widescreen CRT HDTV with a digital resolution of 1,280 by 1,080 and a dot pitch of 0.78 millimeters." source

Some HDTV sets 1280 x 1080:

http://reviews.cnet.com/4566-6485_7-0.html?filter=502443_12354559_ 

 


Sorry to jump in here.

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/hitachi-p50h401/4505-6482_7-32331463.html

 From the site you linked:
Hitachi's P50H401 is hardly a typical plasma, however. Its spec sheet proclaims "HD1080" resolution, which sounds a bit like "1080p" but most decidedly is not

Or another part :

Unlike most 50-inch plasmas, which have native resolutions of 1,366x768 or 1,920x1,080 pixels, the P50H401 claims a native resolution of 1,280x1,080. Hitachi calls this resolution "HD1080," but it's similar to the company's old ALiS system in that the vertical resolution (the all-important "1080" part) isn't comprised of discrete pixels. Like all other non-CRT HDTVs, the Hitachi converts all incoming signals to match its native resolution.


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MikeB said:
@ RocketPig

So you're basically saying that despite Sony's lies and after they have been proven wrong, you will listen to them no matter what. Congratulations.


Sony and all those 3rd party companies don't lie.

The end of this discussion:

50" HD1080 Plasma HDTV
http://www.hitachi.us/Apps/hitachicom/content.jsp?page=products/plasma_tvs/details/P50T501.html&level=2&section=products&parent=plasma_tvs&nav=left&path=jsp/hitachi/forhome/ubcg/&nId=iD
"1080P Compatible" (1280 x 1080)

You asked me provide this and then you'll "shut up". IMO the time is ripe.

Modern sets will probably all support FullHD as the technology is there, mass production of TV panels is cheaper and these are now in mass production due to Blu-Ray movies rendering in this resolution.

You realize what "compatible" means, right?

OMFG... I just read the link... It's talking about the f***ing HDMI port, for Christ's sake.

Try again. Immense fail.




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Early 720p plasma TVs were 1024x768. They were called 720p sets because they could display the required vertical resolution.



bobobologna said:
Early 720p plasma TVs were 1024x768. They were called 720p sets because they could display the required vertical resolution.

Interesting. Still, I haven't seen anything similar for 1080p.




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