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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Mafia Round 74 -Overwatch Theme

Final-Fan said:

Kinda depressed that we are faced with almost the same choices as yesterDay. Does anyone have reason to believe we should be looking somewhere entirely different?

I agree. I soooooo wish we had lynched Mr.P yesterDay. Would've given cop a better target too (regarding the investigation redirect theory).



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miz1q2w3e said:
Linkzmax said:
Question for everyone: Does anyone think darwin is town?

For what it's worth, I do. I saw some of the questions you asked him, and I believe the answers are already in his posts, or you misunderstood some of his posts. I'm not gonna answer for him, though, lol. 

He indirectly answered my re-question of being surprised Mr.P isn't dead since he's apparently unaware of the role claim.

He still has not explained why mafia not killing someone that he believes is very active->guilty surprised him.



axumblade said:

Any suspects besides darwin?



NoCtiS_NoX said:

Where do you think the Day should take us?



Clyde32 said:

Any new thoughts on darwin/Mr.P? Are they still your main suspects?



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Linkzmax said:
Clyde32 said:

Any new thoughts on darwin/Mr.P? Are they still your main suspects?

Mr. P is still a suspect, but he hasn't really posted much on Day 2. 

There are some instances where Darwin seems like he's feigning ignorance. One recent example is asking if we can lie or not. I don't know of a mafia game, real life or not, where you aren't allowed to lie. That's pretty much the whole point. 

Also, I think prof cracked too quickly under pressure earlier, though that could just be that I expect a pro to be able to hold off against that. 



axumblade said:
Also, zero is being fairly quiet in here for someone who is generally very active in these games...

To be fair, he could be following up on his intention to catch up on the thread that he missed. 



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Clyde32 said:
Linkzmax said:

Any new thoughts on darwin/Mr.P? Are they still your main suspects?

Mr. P is still a suspect, but he hasn't really posted much on Day 2. 

There are some instances where Darwin seems like he's feigning ignorance. One recent example is asking if we can lie or not. I don't know of a mafia game, real life or not, where you aren't allowed to lie. That's pretty much the whole point. 

Also, I think prof cracked too quickly under pressure earlier, though that could just be that I expect a pro to be able to hold off against that. 

I think I've mentioned this multiple times already, but still. I've never played a game of mafia with roles, so I don't know how do they work, or if we can lie about them.



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miz1q2w3e said:

I've been thinking, and Baalz's death just isn't sitting well with me. Why would mafia kill him? Also, Baalz never gave any indication that he suspected prof. Most of his suspicions were directed at Mr.P, so why the hell would he target prof to shoot? I am thinking of two scenarios:

1. Baalz didn't shoot last Night. Prof made the stuff up about "ability borrowing" (Like I said, Baalz never gave any indication that he suspected prof). Prof and Mr.P are scum buddies, they killed Baalz because he was tunneling Mr.P yesterDay, and prof made up the story after he discovered what Baalz flipped. Also, since Mr.P is scum bulletproof, he might have taken my "attacking power" post seriously.

2. Baalz died cuz he tunneled Mr.P. They had their own bus driver, and thought they'd try their luck and put him to use because why not. They suspected Baalz was the vig (bulletproof + attacking power), and so they got lucky in directing him at prof. Prof also got lucky in saving himself.

Either way, Mr.P feels scummy af. Thoughts?

1. Perhaps you don't know, but I'm a backstabber type of mafia. I won't hesitate to throw someone under the bus, and I will even start lynch trains against my own team so as to be ahead of the vote train. Second, I would have had mrP corroborate my role. If scum BP Mr.P did take the attacking power seriously, then he actually had nothing to fear from a night kill.

2. Again, same situation, scum BP mrP had nothing to fear from Baalz, and there are plenty better targets to go after. For instance, why target me who defended Mr.P? Why not kill linkz who basically stopped at nothing to lynch Mr.P?

Also, you'd also have to take my own word that I was attacked.
I think a lot of the posts right now are in consideration of whether or not I was actually attacked. It's really annoying because the only reason I came out and said it was because it was info. 

In my OWN opinion, which seems to be the only one I can trust anymore:
Baalz (according to flavor) likely killed himself.
Prof was attacked as the first choice. Prof was very outspoken. Prof drew a lot of attention. Prof is unlikely to have a good role, and feels more comfortable being talkative. Therefore, the reason to kill prof is to silence him. 

I still believe clydes first post that I called out is suspect. In anyone's mind, a possible scenario was mafia killed baalz, baalz attacked me. Linkz makes a point that Baalz targetting prof is unlikely. However, Baalz only suspect was mrP. What if he thought that I defended MrP too much? Another theory is that Baalz wouldve shot Mr.P, but that really doesn't make any sense to do. It wouldn't do anything to what Baalz thought was a BP mafia, and it wouldn't confirm mrPs alignment either. It's so funny because now people are finally starting to say there's a connection between myself and Mr.P, something that I brought up yesterday, and yet nobody sees a possibility that baalz tried to shoot me. Anyway, back to the subject, there was a possibility that baalz attacked me, and mafia attacked baalz. Clyde immediately suspected an SK.

Here's the problem. whoever attacked me, knows they attacked me. If it's mafia, they would know they attacked me, and since a BP only works against a single shot (not two on the same night), they would also know that I wasn't double attacked. I confirmed their shot. Whether they did it to me, or they directed baalz to me, they know they did it. So, it follows that they would know that baalz was killed some other way, either by a redirect or by an SK. I think that is a solid lead. Now Linkz defense of this situation was that Clyde must have assumed that Baalz wouldn't target me. Linkz also mentioned proffing.

Proffing is where I lie about something in order to trap someone into making a mistake. I've done it, I do it, but I didn't do it this time. Linkz asked if I was proffing, so he might have expected that I was lying in order to out some information. However, linkz never actually gave me time to complete the supposed trap. He basically interrupted my interrogation of Clyde by giving Clyde an out. Clyde's first defense of himself was that he assumed with so many BP abilities, then the game must have an SK. To Clyde, it had nothing to do with the actual series of events, but that I had survived an attack.

Before I came in with info, one of Clyde's first posts was 
"I think Prof is a very hard player to read. He's either a huge boon or a huge bane to the town. I will say that for how much he was throwing dirt on to Darwin, he didn't really cast a vote to seal the deal. "

Let's go back over day 1 shall we?
Clyde on lynching: "
I don't think we should lynch on the first day. Anything we can come up with will probably boil down to being a random lynch which isn't helpful at all. "
On a stefl lynch: "
I think if Stefl is third party he would be a safe lynch regardless of what his role was. The main positive side of lynching on day 1 is the amount of information that comes out of it. If we were to lynch a third party on the first day we would garner all the benefits without losing an actual townie in the fray. "
On MrP "
However, I can't tell if this is a scummy play or just a noob mistake. I feel like a scum would have played this off better, but then I'm not sure how experienced he is in the game. It's definitely something worth applying pressure to. "
On MrP "
I think Mr. P is saying all the wrong things. Though whether or not he's scum or just doesn't know any better remains to be seen. There are some cases where if a mafia were running his mouth and making himself look suspicious, the other mafias would tell him to stop in their chat. Though I've been burned by this assumption in the past. "
Next post: "
I'd give a HoS to Mr. P just by the way he handled being put under pressure, and a FoS to Baal. Baal was a vibe I got a bit back, I'd have to look through the posts to find out where it was."
Next: "
I've been told I'm very good at writing so much yet saying so little. To be honest though my weekend has been all-out studying for a test I have tomorrow. So while I have been reading everything, I haven't had the chance to think about a response. I'm currently in a state of just being done studying even though I don't feel ready, so do anything you want while I'm here and I'll respond accordingly. "
Next: 
I believe the whole point of a mixed Vanilla/Power Role game is for the vanillas to take the heat and go ham, while the PRs lay low until they have sufficient info.
On being question about the above quote: "
The biggest thing is I'm not sure if I should lay my hand out on Day 1. And I'm not talking about role claiming."
After Final fan questions witholding nonrole info: "
I can assure you that any info I can get I will lay when the moment is correct."

On voting MrP in the final hours: "
As far as Mr. P goes, I've always been hung up on when he got called out for lurking. 
He never once tried to defend himself on it, but rather he just threw out some names to get people off of his tail. 
The way he worded it was a pretty clear way of saying something akin to "I've been paying attention to the game and here are my findings", when in reality I don't think anything he said had anything to do with the things actually happening in the game. This is clear when he just flat out said "Why not?" when asked why he put his suspects up.
The only thing that's stopped me from placing a vote on him so far has been Prof's posts on the matter. Some of of the things he said after he was put under pressure does seem genuine. 
I'd say there's still a chance he is town, albeit a smaller than usual chance, but there's no denying that there is definitely some information to be found by a lynch considering how long Mr. P has been a topic. 

Vote: Mr. Playstation "

After I made a defense of Mr.P: "Indeed. From the looks of it it wasn't until he got fed up with everything that he started getting really defensive.
unvote
I'm not sure if I want to risk it. We have 5 minutes. 

Last post before the night: "I'm hoping to be a lot more active in scum-hunting on day 2. Some information should come out during the night."

Ok, so to summarize everything from day 1, he initially thinks a lynch day 1 is unlikely to be useful. He says that if stefl were a third party, it would be one of those exceptions where town gets an even better benefit (not a mafia, but better than a townie, plus info). His comments on MrP are on the fence. MrP might be or might not be scum. He didn't like MrPs response to pressure and HoS' him. He also FoS Baalz with a promise to look up info that he never followed through on. In defense of his lack of contribution, he gives an excuse that he talks without saying much as a personal fault (saying it's not alignment indicative). He follows up by saying that vanillas should contribute a lot while the power roles keep quiet. He later says when he has info, he will give it to us.
In his closing posts, he never once says that he believes MrP is mafia. He also said MrP's stance was clear when mrP said "why not" in reference to being asked about the suspects Axum or Stefl. Yet, in the very post MrP says that, Clyde quotes him and says, "
However, I can't tell if this is a scummy play or just a noob mistake. I feel like a scum would have played this off better, but then I'm not sure how experienced he is in the game. It's definitely something worth applying pressure to. " This was actually the first post that Clyde latched on to by MrP. Clyde says he suspected MrP previously, yet he doesn't actually say anything until that "why not" post, which was called out by several people and looked indicative of a possible train lynch type of post.

 

Now, day 2 rolls along. Linkz says, "put up or shutup time clyde, what info do you have".
To which, clyde responds: "
To be quite honest, nothing. That was bait to see if I would be targetted by the mafia. "

What?

Linkz follows up with, and your suspects are???
Clyde says, HoS on MrP still, and I'll FoS darwin too. He basically says he unvoted MrP because of Prof's defense that MrP wasn't the same meta as his usual mafia meta. He says MrP is likely to have learned and changed his gameplay, so an HoS is warranted.
Linkz correctly asks why Prof's defense of the personal meta was enough to unvote yesterday, but not enough today. He also asks what Clyde thinks of Prof and why on the FoS to darwin.
Clyde says: "
I usually reserve a FoS to someone I get a vibe from. HoS when I get something a bit more, and a vote for when there's definitely something to be found from that player. 
I think Prof is a very hard player to read. He's either a huge boon or a huge bane to the town. I will say that for how much he was throwing dirt on to Darwin, he didn't really cast a vote to seal the deal. "

As SOON as I said someone tried to kill me last night, Clyde says:
"
Hmm. Is it possible this game is like the Metal Gear game with a SK, Vig and Mafia combo?"

I said, "I'm 100% sure Clyde has a killing role"
Clyde's immediate response is, "T
rust me, if I was an SK-like role, I'd much rather keep that under the table then draw attention to it. "

What?

If the alarms aren't going off in your head right now, I don't know what kind of arguments you guys are going to need.

Then there's this post:

theprof00 said:
There isn't much else to assume?
Killer targets baalz.
Baalz targets me.

How in any world does anyone come up with a third killer unless they know they didn't target baalz?

The assumption came from the fact that you said you were targeted by a killing role but you weren't killed. If Mr. P is to be believed then that would make 2 BP-like roles in a game. 

If there were a lot of Bulletproof roles, we can assume that there are also a lot of killing roles. The last Chartz game I played was the Metal Gear Mafia game, in which there was both a Serial Killer and a Vigilante. 

Ok, so now we are also not including any potential protections like maybe a doc? What would be hard to believe about a supposed mafia BP MrP, and a doc protection? Not saying any of this happened or is fact, but it would seem like a possible simple scenario.

 

 

Anyway, the way I see it (TL:DR version)
Clyde goes day one saying a lynch is probably not good. He is wishy washy on MrP. His only argument to vote is because he may or may not be scum, and the info might be good. This was after Xander was modkilled so already one loss to the player pool. He defends himself by saying he doesn't talk a lot, makes a hint about power roles not talking a lot. And then on day 2 regrets that we didn't lynch, said he was hoping mafia would target him, called me a boon or a bane to town (like, wtf where did that come from), and then on my info assumes an SK.

I don't even know what else to give you for evidence. 

Right now, I am looking at anyone who suddenly and mysteriously started suspecting me on early day 2, which I would infer as reprisal for surviving a night kill. The two that stand out the most are my initial suspects from yesterday, clyde and darwin. They both suspected me today before I even said anything, despite not suspecting me a single time yesterday.
And as I said earlier, I was chosen to die over anyone else, so maybe there was truth in my suspicions. These were both my main suspects other than stefl, whom I had let off the hook after a particularly nice assumptive reasoning earlier today (I believe I know his role).

So, I know you guys don't 100% trust me, but I trust me, and form the info I have, that is what I conclude. You can either choose to listen, or to ignore me and keep questioning me. I'll just leave the info and you can come back to it later once you do trust me.




Wow that's a long post. There's a tldr near the bottom. But yeah I know, it's a lot of info.
I just wrote it for anyone who to listen.