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Forums - Politics - I would still vote Democrat even if Hillary was the worst human being on earth...

Super_Boom said:
This seems a popular theme honestly. Lots of people tend to put the party before the person, which is why so many traditional Republican voters will vote for Trump despite hating his guts. Same case with Hillary as well.

On a somewhat unrelated note, this might be the election with the fewest presidential lawn signs/bumper stickers I've ever seen. Usually they're everywhere in my area, but I've honestly only counted maybe three or four bumper stickers since the primaries, and not a single lawn sign. Crazy.

I kind of laugh at people who vote a party instead of a person.  I think the concept is very unfortunate, as it leads people or groups of people to power with only one particular point of view.  That is very dangerous...

 

To add to your bumper sticker/lawn sign comment.  I agree, but it seems kind of obvious why.  People may go into a booth with an ability to choose which candidate they are voting for and it is between them and the machine.  But, putting a sign in yoour front yard declaring that you picked a crooked lying politician or an egotist/liar/ sexual deviant is tough to do.  People just don't want to admit or take a chance to be ridicled for their choice.   It comes down to the fact that both sides of supporters are embarrassed by their candidate.   Or if you believe the political talking heads, its the internets fault(like everything nowadays).



It is near the end of the end....

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Landguy said:
Super_Boom said:
This seems a popular theme honestly. Lots of people tend to put the party before the person, which is why so many traditional Republican voters will vote for Trump despite hating his guts. Same case with Hillary as well.

On a somewhat unrelated note, this might be the election with the fewest presidential lawn signs/bumper stickers I've ever seen. Usually they're everywhere in my area, but I've honestly only counted maybe three or four bumper stickers since the primaries, and not a single lawn sign. Crazy.

I kind of laugh at people who vote a party instead of a person.  I think the concept is very unfortunate, as it leads people or groups of people to power with only one particular point of view.  That is very dangerous...

 

To add to your bumper sticker/lawn sign comment.  I agree, but it seems kind of obvious why.  People may go into a booth with an ability to choose which candidate they are voting for and it is between them and the machine.  But, putting a sign in yoour front yard declaring that you picked a crooked lying politician or an egotist/liar/ sexual deviant is tough to do.  People just don't want to admit or take a chance to be ridicled for their choice.   It comes down to the fact that both sides of supporters are embarrassed by their candidate.   Or if you believe the political talking heads, its the internets fault(like everything nowadays).

So let's say Donald Trump is the nicest person ever and Hillary is a human garbage bag. I stand for pro choice, gay rights and social programs like healthcare and welfare.

Hillary and her party like the same things I like but Trump and his party would never ever vote for them.

Now it's your turn to tell me why I should vote for nice guy Trump who is nice but still against everything I want.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

vivster said:
Landguy said:

I kind of laugh at people who vote a party instead of a person.  I think the concept is very unfortunate, as it leads people or groups of people to power with only one particular point of view.  That is very dangerous...

 

To add to your bumper sticker/lawn sign comment.  I agree, but it seems kind of obvious why.  People may go into a booth with an ability to choose which candidate they are voting for and it is between them and the machine.  But, putting a sign in yoour front yard declaring that you picked a crooked lying politician or an egotist/liar/ sexual deviant is tough to do.  People just don't want to admit or take a chance to be ridicled for their choice.   It comes down to the fact that both sides of supporters are embarrassed by their candidate.   Or if you believe the political talking heads, its the internets fault(like everything nowadays).

So let's say Donald Trump is the nicest person ever and Hillary is a human garbage bag. I stand for pro choice, gay rights and social programs like healthcare and welfare.

Hillary and her party like the same things I like but Trump and his party would never ever vote for them.

Now it's your turn to tell me why I should vote for nice guy Trump who is nice but still against everything I want.

By voting Hillary in your scenario, your vote tells that party that it is OK for them to support a human garbage bag as their leader and that even if you are pro choice/gay rights/social programs believer, you want all of the other things that are also important thrown out the window to simply get 2-3 social issues that a president doesn't even have an impact on.  

In the US, the presidents job isn't to write laws or even approve of them if the legislature approves it overwhelmingly.  Even if a law is approved by the legislature and then the president, it must still be judically approved by the supreme court over time.  The presidents job is more a figurehead that has to manage the day to day operations or issues involving the government.  They can't declare war without approval.  They don't make any laws.  They can't have people thrown in jail.



It is near the end of the end....

vivster said:
TheLastStarFighter said:
Also, the US is actually a more "true" democracy than what you're describing in your own country.

Yeah, not voting for the people you want in office but voting for other people who may or may not vote in your favor sure sounds like democratic heaven.

Also making voting as hard as possible sure screams democratic spirit.

You vote individually for each office.  That's more democratic than most standard parlimentary systems.



Landguy said:
vivster said:

So let's say Donald Trump is the nicest person ever and Hillary is a human garbage bag. I stand for pro choice, gay rights and social programs like healthcare and welfare.

Hillary and her party like the same things I like but Trump and his party would never ever vote for them.

Now it's your turn to tell me why I should vote for nice guy Trump who is nice but still against everything I want.

By voting Hillary in your scenario, your vote tells that party that it is OK for them to support a human garbage bag as their leader and that even if you are pro choice/gay rights/social programs believer, you want all of the other things that are also important thrown out the window to simply get 2-3 social issues that a president doesn't even have an impact on.  

In the US, the presidents job isn't to write laws or even approve of them if the legislature approves it overwhelmingly.  Even if a law is approved by the legislature and then the president, it must still be judically approved by the supreme court over time.  The presidents job is more a figurehead that has to manage the day to day operations or issues involving the government.  They can't declare war without approval.  They don't make any laws.  They can't have people thrown in jail.

first you say "vote for a person not a party" now you say "the president is only a figure head"

so, what is it?



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vivster said:
TheLastStarFighter said:
So you blindly follow ideologies rather than personalities. That's interesting, but I hope you don't think it's a good thing.

I'm on the side of the party that will vote for my wishes. Why would I vote for a party that is against me just because I don't like a certain face?

I didn't say that.  You're saying you would vote left-wing no matter what.  That's silly.  If Hilary said she's going to invade Germany with Nuclear weapons but she's pro-choice and gay marriage, you would support her?



KungKras said:
TheLastStarFighter said:
Also, the US is actually a more "true" democracy than what you're describing in your own country.

The US is one of the least democratic democracies in the world.

No, the US system is exceptionally "democratic" compared to most systems.  Voters vote for congress, senate president, judges and so fourth individually.  That's not to say the system doesn't have significant flaws, but it is very democratic.  As a Canadian, I vote only for my local member of parliament, who then has to vote essentially what his party leader says, or he'll be kicked out of the party.  That's exceptinally un-democratic.



Lafiel said:
Landguy said:

By voting Hillary in your scenario, your vote tells that party that it is OK for them to support a human garbage bag as their leader and that even if you are pro choice/gay rights/social programs believer, you want all of the other things that are also important thrown out the window to simply get 2-3 social issues that a president doesn't even have an impact on.  

In the US, the presidents job isn't to write laws or even approve of them if the legislature approves it overwhelmingly.  Even if a law is approved by the legislature and then the president, it must still be judically approved by the supreme court over time.  The presidents job is more a figurehead that has to manage the day to day operations or issues involving the government.  They can't declare war without approval.  They don't make any laws.  They can't have people thrown in jail.

first you say "vote for a person not a party" now you say "the president is only a figure head"

so, what is it?

It's both.  The Presidential position itself is a figurehead for the whole country and their party.  If the person is a piece of garbage, then you are chooing to have that person personally reflect you to the rest of the world.  If you believe that every Democrat is a crooked liar who doesn't care about managing the information that is given to them, you are wrong.  

Sure, Hillary says that she is pro choice.  But what is pro choice going to matter as a president?  Not one thing.  The president doesn't get involved in that at all.  The president gets involved in international negotiations, minor military actions, and general perceptions to the outside world.  That's why choosing the person based on their actual personality and track record in those types of things matters.  Unfortunately, the mass media panders to the lowest common denominator.  They will talk about pro choice/black lives matter/ and social programs in regards to the presidential race even though they are the farthest from what the job really is.  



It is near the end of the end....

vivster said:

... and Trump the most upstanding citizen.

Simply because it's all about policy. I like the left wing policies a lot more than the right wing ones and I would gain nothing by voting republican.

 

Of course this is hypothetical since I live in a real democracy where we vote for parties and their policies first and then faces.

I agree.  Trump talks a lot, but there is never any substance to what he says.  He's all about "the Donald".  Anyone that isn't filthy rich that thinks that he's give a crap about you any further than getting your vote, you're sadly mistaken.



Stop hating and start playing.

It makes sense though. For any other election, you do just vote for the personality. Voting for President - you're not just voting for the person, but more or less the whole team of people that will come along with them.

I for one don't really mind left-leaning policies too much. But I'm not voting for Hillary - not simply because of her sins - because the people that will come along with her are also corrupt and morally bankrupt per Wikileaks.



I predict NX launches in 2017 - not 2016