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Forums - General - The Japanese Market is collapsing

Final-Fan on 17 March 2008

Fair enough. It's unreasonable to ask anyone to be willing, 24/7/365, to engage in a massive debate on any subject with random people.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

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kenzomatic on 17 March 2008
Final-Fan said:
Right, but look at it this way: If a rich person/business owner gets money, SOME of that goes to poor people/employees. If a poor person gets it, it ALL goes to poor people. There's no way around that.  (BTW, I wonder whether both of our oversimplifications are getting to the point that they're losing real-world significance.)

Yes it is losing significance because poor people don't create jobs. And more over you have not defined this "poor people class" or whether or not we're talking tax cuts or welfare or socialism.

 You can't give tax cuts to people in poverty as there's no tax taken.



"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."

Your theories are the worst kind of popular tripe, your methods are sloppy, and your conclusions are highly questionable! You are a poor scientist. Especially if you think the moon landing was faked.

ioi + 1
Final-Fan on 17 March 2008
kenzomatic said:
Final-Fan said:
Right, but look at it this way: If a rich person/business owner gets money, SOME of that goes to poor people/employees. If a poor person gets it, it ALL goes to poor people. There's no way around that. (BTW, I wonder whether both of our oversimplifications are getting to the point that they're losing real-world significance.)
Yes it is losing significance because poor people don't create jobs. And more over you have not defined this "poor people class" or whether or not we're talking tax cuts or welfare or socialism.

You can't give tax cuts to people in poverty as there's no tax taken.
And I suppose businesses don't create work.  Also, nice non sequitur.

As for the rest, liunil's discussion with me was implicitly presuming that both parties were competing for tax cuts.

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

kenzomatic on 17 March 2008
Final-Fan said:
kenzomatic said:
Final-Fan said:
Right, but look at it this way: If a rich person/business owner gets money, SOME of that goes to poor people/employees. If a poor person gets it, it ALL goes to poor people. There's no way around that. (BTW, I wonder whether both of our oversimplifications are getting to the point that they're losing real-world significance.)
Yes it is losing significance because poor people don't create jobs. And more over you have not defined this "poor people class" or whether or not we're talking tax cuts or welfare or socialism.

You can't give tax cuts to people in poverty as there's no tax taken.
And I suppose businesses don't create work.  Also, nice non sequitur.

As for the rest, liunil's discussion with me was implicitly presuming that both parties were competing for tax cuts.

Despit the fact I completely dissagree with your views I'm giving you some cool points for ^that.



"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."

Your theories are the worst kind of popular tripe, your methods are sloppy, and your conclusions are highly questionable! You are a poor scientist. Especially if you think the moon landing was faked.

ioi + 1
DMeisterJ on 17 March 2008

Yeah, the Japanese market is collapsing.

MS may be luckier next generation if Japan becomes more of a non-factor.



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Kasz216 on 17 March 2008
kenzomatic said:
Final-Fan said:
Right, but look at it this way: If a rich person/business owner gets money, SOME of that goes to poor people/employees. If a poor person gets it, it ALL goes to poor people. There's no way around that. (BTW, I wonder whether both of our oversimplifications are getting to the point that they're losing real-world significance.)

Yes it is losing significance because poor people don't create jobs. And more over you have not defined this "poor people class" or whether or not we're talking tax cuts or welfare or socialism.

You can't give tax cuts to people in poverty as there's no tax taken.


Poor people pretty much have to spend money. The Money the spend goes to buisnesses. The Buisnesses with more money create new jobs.

There is a reason why even President Bush's economic stimulis program is to give money to the people to spend, and not give money to buisnesses.

Money to poor people is definitly going to buisnesses. Buisnesses getting the same amount of extra money aren't definitly going to create jobs.  They might even use it to upgrade their machinary to remove jobs.



Final-Fan on 17 March 2008

Thanks. On that note, I think I'll go play Brawl for a while.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

kenzomatic on 17 March 2008
Kasz216 said:
kenzomatic said:
Final-Fan said:
Right, but look at it this way: If a rich person/business owner gets money, SOME of that goes to poor people/employees. If a poor person gets it, it ALL goes to poor people. There's no way around that. (BTW, I wonder whether both of our oversimplifications are getting to the point that they're losing real-world significance.)

Yes it is losing significance because poor people don't create jobs. And more over you have not defined this "poor people class" or whether or not we're talking tax cuts or welfare or socialism.

You can't give tax cuts to people in poverty as there's no tax taken.


Poor people pretty much have to spend money.  The Money the spend goes to buisnesses.  The Buisnesses with more money create new jobs.

There is a reason why even President Bush's economic stimulis program is to give money to the people to spend, and not give money to buisnesses.


Yes I do understand Keynesian economics and I was overstating and over simplifying. But giving the money to business does has a more immediate effect.

Plus do you know how long it take for it to have an effect on luxary items when you give it to the poor, that is a big part of the economy.



"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."

Your theories are the worst kind of popular tripe, your methods are sloppy, and your conclusions are highly questionable! You are a poor scientist. Especially if you think the moon landing was faked.

ioi + 1
Final-Fan on 17 March 2008
kenzomatic said:
Kasz216 said:
kenzomatic said:
Final-Fan said:
Right, but look at it this way: If a rich person/business owner gets money, SOME of that goes to poor people/employees. If a poor person gets it, it ALL goes to poor people. There's no way around that. (BTW, I wonder whether both of our oversimplifications are getting to the point that they're losing real-world significance.)
Yes it is losing significance because poor people don't create jobs. And more over you have not defined this "poor people class" or whether or not we're talking tax cuts or welfare or socialism.

You can't give tax cuts to people in poverty as there's no tax taken.
Poor people pretty much have to spend money. The Money the spend goes to buisnesses. The Buisnesses with more money create new jobs.

There is a reason why even President Bush's economic stimulis program is to give money to the people to spend, and not give money to buisnesses.
Yes I do understand Keynesian economics and I was overstating and over simplifying. But giving the money to business does has a more immediate effect.

Plus do you know how long it take for it to have an effect on luxary items when you give it to the poor, that is a big part of the economy.
Well I guess the immediacy of the effect depends on which effect you're talking about, or from whose point of view.  If you mean from the businesses' point of view, then yeah, the small wait for poor people to spend the money is still longer than the money going straight to them. 

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

kenzomatic on 17 March 2008

It's an endless debate but here are some links (for informational purposes i'm not arguing, most will include point and counter point)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply-side_economics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle-down_economics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplier_%28economics%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginal_propensity_to_consume
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggregate_demand



"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."

Your theories are the worst kind of popular tripe, your methods are sloppy, and your conclusions are highly questionable! You are a poor scientist. Especially if you think the moon landing was faked.

ioi + 1