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Forums - General - The Folly of Attacking Iran

shio said:

Griffin said:
You guys are just insane if you think Iran would have any chance against the US. Do you guys not remember during the first golf war, Iraq had one of the largest militaries in the world and it was destroyed no problem by the US forces. Not only did they destroy the military, the Iraqi forces where to scared to even get in their planes to fight the US because they were getting blown out of the sky the second they would take off. The US would not even need to place troops in Iran, they would be dropping 100k bombs on this country during an opening attack. The country would be nothing.

Shut up, in the Gulf War Iraq was severely weakened because it had just lost their previous war, and against Iran might I add. Though either way Iraq would never win the Gulf war.

It is a surprise that Iran is still around right now, they have caused so many problems with the war in Iraq. They have kidnapped British soldiers, they have supplied weapons to insurgents and provide traning fro fighters going to attack US bases in Iraq. Not only that they have came within short distances of US boats in the Mideast waters. The order to kill the boats was given just seconds after the boats left the waters.

What problems? The Iranian government doesn't even like Iraq.

Iran is also causing problems with Israel, saying that the holocaust never happened and threatening to wipe every Jewish person from the face of the planet.

Shut up, yes they have a problem with Israel, but you should know that Iran has the largest population of jews in the Middle East. They only have a problem with zionists.

Israel has also been forced to protect herself from these enemies and each time they have destroyed the military of these foreign nations. Also due to these middle east countries attacking Israel they have almost started a third WW. When they go crying to the USSR back in the day, because Israel beat the shit out of them.

Iran has never attacked Israel, to my knowledge. Atleast not in recent times.


 


The Iranian government actually does like current Iraq. A lot of the current Iraqi leaders were exiles who lived in iran during Sadam Hussein's rule. Iran's ruler just got back from a visit to Iraq... like today...

Iran was happy the US took out Sadam Hussein. They just don't give the US any credit because well... America and Iran hate each other.

Infact.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7274199.stm

Sure they may have trouble down the line. But as of now...

That's why i'm not sure i buy the Iran supporting insurgents thing.  I'm sure some of it's army officals are happy that americans are being attacked, and they may be supporting the ones that are purely anti-american, but i don't see them supply any of the forces that would be there after the US left, the ones who would start a civil war. 

Any attacking of Iran's nuclear programs should be done exactly how things like this have been done in the past. Bombing of facilities with no use of ground forces... or at the most, startegic raids via superior air power to get in and out.



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disolitude said:
Do you guys think American troops have the desire to go and fight another war at this point. I mean, the bullshit Iraq has turned in to and all... plus Bush is on his way out anyways. He won't be able to get congress to approve this unless Iran gives him a damn good reason to attack. And thus far I don't see one.
Bush had his swing at good international policy in the 8 years he was in the office and he missed it by a mile. Once he's gone things will get better with Iran.

 If and when US troops get on the ground in Iran they will not be fighting like they were in Iraq, they will not be going door to door looking for retards hiding weapons under there beds.  They will set-up defensive postions in Iran, Iraq or Afghanistan and launch massive air attacks around the clock from bases in the US, Europe, South Pacific, middle east, air craft carries and cruise missiles from subs and battleships.

The plan for Iraq was a good plan, but the US was too busy fighting the war the insugents wanted and not fighting the war they wanted.  Saddam and the Iraqi government just had to accept the rules of the UN and not their run around with the weapons inspectors, saddam could of stepped down and allowed the UN to do its job and the war would of never happened.

I doubt things will get better with Iran, they will never change their minds and say their was a holocaust and that Jews don't need to be wiped from the planet, and allow UN inspectors to vist their Nuclear planets and Nuclear facilities.



Griffin said:
shio said:
Invading Iran would be just like Vietnam, with the US getting owned pretty hard and become, once again (as if it wasn't already), a laughing stock throughout the world.

The US getting owned pretty hard, maybe you should go read about what happened. The US lost 58,000 troops in the war, While killing 1.1 million North Vietnamese and Viet Cong fighters, the South veitnam forces lost 200k to 250k. The US dropped 8 million tons of bombs on Vietnam between 1965 and 1973. This was over three times the amount of bombs dropped throughout the whole of the second world war. Plus 688,000 agricultural acres were sprayed with a chemical called Agent Blue. The US also won over 99% engadement's with the NVA/VC forces. The NVA/VC during their major attack the TET offensive suffered a major defeat, as shown below. Which they claimed to be a victory

 

Country/Force Killed Wounded Missing  
US, Korea, Australia 1,536 7,764 11  
South Viet Nam 2,788 8,299 587  
North Viet Nam and Viet Cong 45,000 not known not known  
Civilian 14,000 24,000   630,000 homeless

 


The US still lost the war, they admitted defeat and only gained a huge deficit from the war. Vietnam lost alot, maybe too much, but atleast they still ended up having control over their own country.



@Hus

The justification for the 2003 invasion of Iraq was that Saddam Hussein's government was building weapons of mass destruction.. which were an imminent threat to the US. The object was to take out Hussein's regime, which was accomplished very quickly. Surely you remember that? Iraq was supposedly invaded to destroy a dictatorship and its ability to make war. To be sure, helping the Iraqi people was part of the rhetoric but the major reason was the supposed WMDs. Over four thousand coalition soldiers and countless Iraqis have died. Nearly five years and $500,000,000,000 have been spent. For what?

Do you really think it would be a good idea to fight another war, for the exact same supposed reasons, against a larger, more populous nation?

Again, If Israel is attacked.. it has the right to defend itself. Quite frankly, the US and European nations have been bankrolling Israel since its founding in 1947. It has demonstrated, time and time again, to have a competent military and be able to hold its own against hostile neighbors. Why should the US send troops to help out Israel? What have they done to help the US?



This Is vey important.



"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."

Your theories are the worst kind of popular tripe, your methods are sloppy, and your conclusions are highly questionable! You are a poor scientist. Especially if you think the moon landing was faked.


ioi + 1
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Griffin said:
disolitude said:
Do you guys think American troops have the desire to go and fight another war at this point. I mean, the bullshit Iraq has turned in to and all... plus Bush is on his way out anyways. He won't be able to get congress to approve this unless Iran gives him a damn good reason to attack. And thus far I don't see one.
Bush had his swing at good international policy in the 8 years he was in the office and he missed it by a mile. Once he's gone things will get better with Iran.

If and when US troops get on the ground in Iran they will not be fighting like they were in Iraq, they will not be going door to door looking for retards hiding weapons under there beds. They will set-up defensive postions in Iran, Iraq or Afghanistan and launch massive air attacks around the clock from bases in the US, Europe, South Pacific, middle east, air craft carries and cruise missiles from subs and battleships.

The plan for Iraq was a good plan, but the US was too busy fighting the war the insugents wanted and not fighting the war they wanted. Saddam and the Iraqi government just had to accept the rules of the UN and not their run around with the weapons inspectors, saddam could of stepped down and allowed the UN to do its job and the war would of never happened.

I doubt things will get better with Iran, they will never change their minds and say their was a holocaust and that Jews don't need to be wiped from the planet, and allow UN inspectors to vist their Nuclear planets and Nuclear facilities.


I won't argue with you about war tactics as you clearly know more about that than me. I get lost in COD4 when i have to go around a tank lol...

But your thinking is a little too one dimensional. Thinking like that is the reason why Iran has nuclear facilities to begin with. 



Damn some of you are way to delusional about US military capability, especially Griffin.  You might want to read up on their defense capability, Russia pretty much sale them the best they got.

 I would have though you learned a lesson in Vietman, Soviet failure in Afganistan and your debacle in Iraq.



Let me just clear something up that most people seem to be confusing.

-Could the U.S. militarily take out Iran? Lol, hell yes.

-Could the U.S. stick around and police Iran like it is doing in Iraq? No. Well maybe but it would bloodier than Vietnam


Critics of the U.S. military see it's failures at policing Iraq and go ahead and say the US military sucks. Oh please, army are made and trained to kill other armies, they are not made to police a terrorist run state.
Critics say Napoleon and Hitler had armies that were more powerful and successful
than the US. I argue this, Hitler could simply carpet bomb entire cities and kill entire civilian populations. The U.S. spends billions and risks its soldiers lives to protect the civilians of enemy nations. Heck half the time an American soldier shoots an enemy and then 10 seconds later runs over and carries him to a hospital. This is a slight exaggeration but you get the point, part of the reason the US gets bogged down in these "policing wars" is because unlike Hitler or any of the large armies of past, the US can't simply kill everyone in the countries it invades... because my god if it was allowed to just kill anyone like the armies of past could (and thank god it can't) the U.S. would rip the Middle East to shreds.



eab said:


Critics of the U.S. military see it's failures at policing Iraq and go ahead and say the US military sucks. Oh please, army are made and trained to kill other armies, they are not made to police a terrorist run state.
Critics say Napoleon and Hitler had armies that were more powerful and successful
than the US. I argue this, Hitler could simply carpet bomb entire cities and kill entire civilian populations. The U.S. spends billions and risks its soldiers lives to protect the civilians of enemy nations. Heck half the time an American soldier shoots an enemy and then 10 seconds later runs over and carries him to a hospital. This is a slight exaggeration but you get the point, part of the reason the US gets bogged down in these "policing wars" is because unlike Hitler or any of the large armies of past, the US can't simply kill everyone in the countries it invades... because my god if it was allowed to just kill anyone like the armies of past could (and thank god it can't) the U.S. would rip the Middle East to shreds.

 that is so stupid that i wonder if your are being serious or just screwing with people.

 



shio said:

Griffin said:
You guys are just insane if you think Iran would have any chance against the US. Do you guys not remember during the first golf war, Iraq had one of the largest militaries in the world and it was destroyed no problem by the US forces. Not only did they destroy the military, the Iraqi forces where to scared to even get in their planes to fight the US because they were getting blown out of the sky the second they would take off. The US would not even need to place troops in Iran, they would be dropping 100k bombs on this country during an opening attack. The country would be nothing.

Shut up, in the Gulf War Iraq was severely weakened because it had just lost their previous war, and against Iran might I add. Though either way Iraq would never win the Gulf war.

They never lost their war with Iran, and it was not even a real war, it was just two retards being stupid, Iran also used children to clear minefeilds.

It is a surprise that Iran is still around right now, they have caused so many problems with the war in Iraq. They have kidnapped British soldiers, they have supplied weapons to insurgents and provide traning fro fighters going to attack US bases in Iraq. Not only that they have came within short distances of US boats in the Mideast waters. The order to kill the boats was given just seconds after the boats left the waters.

What problems? The Iranian government doesn't even like Iraq

 What probplems? i just listed them.

Iran is also causing problems with Israel, saying that the holocaust never happened and threatening to wipe every Jewish person from the face of the planet.

Shut up, yes they have a problem with Israel, but you should know that Iran has the largest population of jews in the Middle East. They only have a problem with zionists.

They have a problem with History, saying that their was no holocaust. 

Israel has also been forced to protect herself from these enemies and each time they have destroyed the military of these foreign nations. Also due to these middle east countries attacking Israel they have almost started a third WW. When they go crying to the USSR back in the day, because Israel beat the shit out of them.

Iran has never attacked Israel, to my knowledge. Atleast not in recent times.

They attack Israel by third parties, they fund the people attacking Israel. 


 

   

Iraq had 1.2 million ground troops with about 5,800 tanks, 5,100 other armored vehicles, and 3,850 artillery pieces made for impressive ground strength. With 750 fighters and bombers, 200 other aircraft, and elaborate missile and gun defenses, this was at the start of the Gulf war with the US. 

I also found numbers on the war with Iran and Iraq.

Imbalance of Power (1980-1987) Iraq Iran
Tanks in 1980 2700 1740
Tanks in 1987 4500 1000
Fighter Aircraft in 1980 332 445
Fighter Aircraft in 1987 500+ 65*
Helicopters in 1980 40 500
Helicopters in 1987 150 60
Artillery in 1980 1000 1000+
Artillery in 1987 4000+ 1000+