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Nicklesbe said:

No I'm not being selective. I'm looking at actual facts, the real provable facts. You on the otherhand are focusing on the imagined ramblings of people in other forums and using that as evidence, even tho there is absolutly no proof any of it happened. Most of it has been taken down because again it was all slanderous BS. The one person in the industry she did have a relationship never made any reviews or did any stories about her game. Which disproves your theory. 

The fact that you guys continue to harp on about this, believing the lies of other people, ignoring facts, all so you can continue to bash her says a lot about you. I don't have any double standards, so far the only one with double standards is you. If a guy does this sort of thing you don't bat an eye but a woman does it you go on a crusade and ignore facts even after it's been disproven. I didn't label anyone without facts. I used their words and behavior towards the woman in question as evidence. If you come here and bash her and treat her like a monster and like some enemy that needs to be attacked instead of a human being, if you give the men invovled a free pass and even treat them like they were victems that were manipulated by her, and if you use the postings and words of others from MRA threads on reddit then guess what it's fair to say that person is a MRA and its not a double standard.

So you guys can either accept the facts as they have been proven or you can continue on this now even more baseless crusade to attack someone that frankly doesn't deserve it. It just makes you look bad.

And who are you, exactly, just as distanced from the events as everyone else, to decide what is fact, and what is 'basely rumor and slander'?
You are simply pushing your opinions on others because the opinions they hold don't set well with you.

Also, where exactly does he "continue to bash her" in his post?

Nicklesbe said:

 I didn't label anyone without facts. I used their words and behavior towards the woman in question as evidence.

Guess what most of the posters in this thread are using to label Zoe Quinn, could it possibly be her words, both in private to her then-boyfriend, and in the aftermath across the internet?

You continue to chime in and point out that "things haven't been proven", but you're completely unwilling to objectively discuss the topic, your attitude is the exact same as that of those blindly defending her, "don't talk about it, end this convosation, delete these posts, shut down this site", you state the removal of posts and comments as defense against your opinion of the situation, but neglect to question the reasoning for their removal other than to simply label them slander and group together the attitudes of a few internet users and label anyone who disagrees with you under the same, single, all-reaching banner.



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This is some embarrassing tabloid shit and has nothing to do with video games. Im starting wonder will we start to see more of this garbage if the western obsessiveness with making this industry more like movie/music industry falls through.

This white knighting, feminist shit has gotten out of control. We need to return back purist industry where the main focus is on making great video games.



Nicklesbe said:

No I'm not being selective. I'm looking at actual facts, the real provable facts. You on the otherhand are focusing on the imagined ramblings of people in other forums and using that as evidence, even tho there is absolutly no proof any of it happened. Most of it has been taken down because again it was all slanderous BS. The one person in the industry she did have a relationship never made any reviews or did any stories about her game. Which disproves your theory. 

The fact that you guys continue to harp on about this, believing the lies of other people, ignoring facts, all so you can continue to bash her says a lot about you. I don't have any double standards, so far the only one with double standards is you. If a guy does this sort of thing you don't bat an eye but a woman does it you go on a crusade and ignore facts even after it's been disproven. I didn't label anyone without facts. I used their words and behavior towards the woman in question as evidence. If you come here and bash her and treat her like a monster and like some enemy that needs to be attacked instead of a human being, if you give the men invovled a free pass and even treat them like they were victems that were manipulated by her, and if you use the postings and words of others from MRA threads on reddit then guess what it's fair to say that person is a MRA and its not a double standard.

So you guys can either accept the facts as they have been proven or you can continue on this now even more baseless crusade to attack someone that frankly doesn't deserve it. It just makes you look bad.


Lookie lookie who's the one who's making baseless claims now? How do you know how he'd react if this was a guy instead.



Nicklesbe said:
o_O.Q said:
Nicklesbe said:
That settles it then. Now that we know no unethical behavior was done then this topics relevance has ended. Can it now finally be locked and we get back to talking about gaming instead of people inserting themselves into the sex lives of others for the purpose of simply bashing a female in the game industry for simply being female and having personal and private relationships with others.

not really there's still evidence that contradicts what you're saying

 

and id just like to say that the funny thing about jumping to a woman's defense simply because she's a woman is that it actually doesn't help her ( or yourself for that matter ) in anyway...

for one thing taking accountablitiy away from anyone is actually taking power away from them because you're essentially saying they are irresponsible and therefore they must have external aid in navigating through situations just like a child would

and its because of that that women ( understandably ) generally do not respond well to people who do this because especially now in this society we are supposed to be empowering women, in that we're making sure they have more choices and that when they make them they can own their choices and grow as a result... there is no growth when someone isn't help accountable

No there really isn't. There are forums posts from people that dreamed up nonsense. The only provable facts are that she had a relationship with someone at kotaku and the person at kotaku never reviewed her game or wrote a story aobut her game. That means it's been disproven. There is no real evidence that says otherwise. Just BS .

Not arguing for either side here but you should know this is a fallacious argument. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance 

Having said that the whole situation (Internet trolls, shady journalism, SJWs) is a mess. A mess I want no part of. [Goes back to playing Guacamelee]



Tachikoma said:
Nicklesbe said:

No I'm not being selective. I'm looking at actual facts, the real provable facts. You on the otherhand are focusing on the imagined ramblings of people in other forums and using that as evidence, even tho there is absolutly no proof any of it happened. Most of it has been taken down because again it was all slanderous BS. The one person in the industry she did have a relationship never made any reviews or did any stories about her game. Which disproves your theory. 

The fact that you guys continue to harp on about this, believing the lies of other people, ignoring facts, all so you can continue to bash her says a lot about you. I don't have any double standards, so far the only one with double standards is you. If a guy does this sort of thing you don't bat an eye but a woman does it you go on a crusade and ignore facts even after it's been disproven. I didn't label anyone without facts. I used their words and behavior towards the woman in question as evidence. If you come here and bash her and treat her like a monster and like some enemy that needs to be attacked instead of a human being, if you give the men involved a free pass and even treat them like they were victims that were manipulated by her, and if you use the postings and words of others from MRA threads on reddit then guess what it's fair to say that person is a MRA and its not a double standard.

So you guys can either accept the facts as they have been proven or you can continue on this now even more baseless crusade to attack someone that frankly doesn't deserve it. It just makes you look bad.

And who are you, exactly, just as distanced from the events as everyone else, to decide what is fact, and what is 'basely rumor and slander'?
You are simply pushing your opinions on others because the opinions they hold don't set well with you.

Also, where exactly does he "continue to bash her" in his post?

Nicklesbe said:

 I didn't label anyone without facts. I used their words and behavior towards the woman in question as evidence.

Guess what most of the posters in this thread are using to label Zoe Quinn, could it possibly be her words, both in private to her then-boyfriend, and in the aftermath across the internet?

Most of the posters aren't using her words they are using the words and posts in other forums and on reddit or the words of her jealous and angry ex-boyfriend, None of which qualifies as fact. Do you really not understand the difference between fact and rumor? If so that explains so much. The things you use as "evidence" aka the postings of 3rd party people who were never there that have no proof to back up their claims and are just saying it to hurt her, that is Baseless slander. Then we have provable fact which is that the man she had a relationship with at kotaku never wrote a story about her game or reviewed it since their relationship. So again your hypothesis has been proven wrong. So you can either accept that and move on or you can ignore the facts and continue harping on about it which only proves you are motivated by and innate hatred of the woman



http://www.youtube.com/v/AoOOpLpcF28 http://www.youtube.com/v/CphFZGH5030

All Hail the Jester King. The King is back, and I am still a dirty girl prof ;)

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Talal said:
Nicklesbe said:

No I'm not being selective. I'm looking at actual facts, the real provable facts. You on the otherhand are focusing on the imagined ramblings of people in other forums and using that as evidence, even tho there is absolutly no proof any of it happened. Most of it has been taken down because again it was all slanderous BS. The one person in the industry she did have a relationship never made any reviews or did any stories about her game. Which disproves your theory. 

The fact that you guys continue to harp on about this, believing the lies of other people, ignoring facts, all so you can continue to bash her says a lot about you. I don't have any double standards, so far the only one with double standards is you. If a guy does this sort of thing you don't bat an eye but a woman does it you go on a crusade and ignore facts even after it's been disproven. I didn't label anyone without facts. I used their words and behavior towards the woman in question as evidence. If you come here and bash her and treat her like a monster and like some enemy that needs to be attacked instead of a human being, if you give the men invovled a free pass and even treat them like they were victems that were manipulated by her, and if you use the postings and words of others from MRA threads on reddit then guess what it's fair to say that person is a MRA and its not a double standard.

So you guys can either accept the facts as they have been proven or you can continue on this now even more baseless crusade to attack someone that frankly doesn't deserve it. It just makes you look bad.


Lookie lookie who's the one who's making baseless claims now? How do you know how he'd react if this was a guy instead.

There were apparently 5 guys invovled and so far he's given them a free pass, completely ignoring their part in it. That's not baseless.



http://www.youtube.com/v/AoOOpLpcF28 http://www.youtube.com/v/CphFZGH5030

All Hail the Jester King. The King is back, and I am still a dirty girl prof ;)

Nicklesbe said:

 I don't have any double standards, so far the only one with double standards is you. If a guy does this sort of thing you don't bat an eye but a woman does it you go on a crusade and ignore facts even after it's been disproven.

When a male games developer is accused of cheating on his girlfriend with a female member of the press and several other industry folk, you'll find out.

Though I suspect if that were to actually happen, the "facts" for you would shift towards the posted chatlogs of the cheated-on girlfriend.

Ultimately there is a guy in all this, who would, initially at least, seem to have a high tollerance for abuse, who has been both emotionally and mentally abused, just like any case of private relationship abuse we cannot, and will not know the whole story and get the entire picture, but I am perfectly willing to give him the benefit of doubt for his claims of such abuse, as I would be anyone else, his gender should not and does not detract or invalidate his claims - if he says he has been emotionally and mentally abused, then we *have* to take it seriously and give him the benefit of doubt, just as we would if anyone else were to make the claim, regardless of gender -

Because that is the true meaning of equality.



sundin13 said:
Nicklesbe said:

No there really isn't. There are forums posts from people that dreamed up nonsense. The only provable facts are that she had a relationship with someone at kotaku and the person at kotaku never reviewed her game or wrote a story aobut her game. That means it's been disproven. There is no real evidence that says otherwise. Just BS .

 

A lot of things can't be definitively proven, but that doesn't mean we should just pretend that there is no controversy going on. There are plenty of valid talking points here, from journalistic integrity to equality in the games industry and the fact that you (Nickle) just keep trying to silence everyone, isn't helping anyone. 

As for the specific case, the exact details have not been worked out. We do not have all of the facts, but there is a good amount of evidence leading to the belief that professionally unethical behavior has taken place. For example, the Kotaku guy did publish a story, briefly highlighting Depression Quest as one of the most notable games hitting Steam Greenlight (out of a batch of 50) on Rock Paper Shotgun and there are the two other industry figures who still have open allegations...

There is no need for you to silence this thread. It is not sexist, it is not by misogynists, and in reality, you are probably creating more attention for the issue by sparking these debates. 

Im not trying to silence anyone. Just looking at the facts. It's been proven that there was no unethical behavior on her part or Kotakus part. There is no more relevance to gaming anymore. Now it's just people trying to thrust themselves into the sex life of a female that happens to be a game dev. It's sad and serves no purpose.



http://www.youtube.com/v/AoOOpLpcF28 http://www.youtube.com/v/CphFZGH5030

All Hail the Jester King. The King is back, and I am still a dirty girl prof ;)

Tamron said:
Nicklesbe said:

 I don't have any double standards, so far the only one with double standards is you. If a guy does this sort of thing you don't bat an eye but a woman does it you go on a crusade and ignore facts even after it's been disproven.

When a male games developer is accused of cheating on his girlfriend with a female member of the press and several other industry folk, you'll find out.

Though I suspect if that were to actually happen, the "facts" for you would shift towards the posted chatlogs of the cheated-on girlfriend.

Ultimately there is a guy in all this, who would, initially at least, seem to have a high tollerance for abuse, who has been both emotionally and mentally abused, just like any case of private relationship abuse we cannot, and will not know the whole story and get the entire picture, but I am perfectly willing to give him the benefit of doubt for his claims of such abuse, as I would be anyone else, his gender should not and does not detract or invalidate his claims - if he says he has been emotionally and mentally abused, then we *have* to take it seriously and give him the benefit of doubt, just as we would if anyone else were to make the claim, regardless of gender -

Because that is the true meaning of equality.

No equality would be giving them both the benefit of the doubt and looking at the facts for what they are. What you are describing is treating the man like a victem and treating the woman like a monster. That's not equality.



http://www.youtube.com/v/AoOOpLpcF28 http://www.youtube.com/v/CphFZGH5030

All Hail the Jester King. The King is back, and I am still a dirty girl prof ;)

Nicklesbe said:

Most of the posters aren't using her words they are using the words and posts in other forums and on reddit or the words of her jealous and angry ex-boyfriend, None of which qualifies as fact. Do you really not understand the difference between fact and rumor? If so that explains so much. The things you use as "evidence" aka the postings of 3rd party people who were never there that have no proof to back up their claims and are just saying it to hurt her, that is Baseless slander. Then we have provable fact which is that the man she had a relationship with at kotaku never wrote a story about her game or reviewed it since their relationship. So again your hypothesis has been proven wrong. 

You are making the assumption that their opinions are based on a specific source - despite conveniently forgetting that, for the most part, this "source" has been mostly or completely deleted, after Zoe got in contact with the lead moderator for /r/gaming/

Secondly, the ex boyfriend would have every right to be angry based on the way he was treated - What you seem to not understand however, is that I am a games developer, and part of this industry, I have attended the same events and conventions - I have actually met Zoe who was, at the time I met her, accompanies by that "jealous and angry ex-boyfriend".

And again, you are wrong - Nathan DID write a piece that covered her game, he just wrote it for another site - and this occured *AFTER* their "relationship" started.

Nicklesbe said:

So you can either accept that and move on or you can ignore the facts and continue harping on about it which only proves you are motivated by and innate hatred of the woman

Let me let you in on a little secret - i AM a woman, so you won't be able to use this line against me on a whim like you have done here.

Nicklesbe said:

There were apparently 5 guys invovled and so far he's given them a free pass, completely ignoring their part in it. That's not baseless.

They don't get a free pass - we only know the names of three of the accused, one has had to basically confirm it to remain employed, the other two have done their best to sidestep the issue, all of which if they knew she was still in a relationship, are just as bad as a result - the accused , and married guy especially for doing so while married of course.

However, "look, those horrible men aren't being treated like shit, theyre given a free pass!" lends no excuse for her actions, nor does it mean they get a free pass - you are welcome to cover that portion of the topic specifically, and I'm sure most people here will agree that they're as guilty in all of this as she is accused of being - but flat out trying to silence anyone who aposes your opinion is the wrong approach entirely.