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Forums - Gaming - Anti-Indie'ers are giving me cancer!

Goatseye said:

Isn't total free reign on the development and pusblishing process what the Indie developers and Sony boasting about since Feb 2013?

It is a big advantage for a small team dev but have people seen Mineclones on XBLA Indie section? Avatar COD games?

I'm pretty sure that Sod Drink garbage is gonna get a major rehaul.


Forgot to address this. xD The bright side is, I checked, and there haven't been any Xbox One updates about Soda Drinker Pro since it was first announced in April; I'm hoping this means that the ridicule Microsoft got for adding it to the indie list convinced them to do an about-face, and maybe even practice stricter quality control going forward. ....fingers crossed anyway, because I don't see anything short of Microsoft bringing in another developer to rehaul it doing much to improve it. Thing looks like it was made in MS Paint.



Zanten, Doer Of The Things

Unless He Forgets In Which Case Zanten, Forgetter Of The Things

Or He Procrascinates, In Which Case Zanten, Doer Of The Things Later

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What happened to small 3D platformer or action/adventure games?
Can't they emulate games from N64 era?
Why the eff, No Man Sky devs (10 members) can make that game and devs backed by big 3 and EA/Ubisoft can't produce something with that much content and quality?
Where are sports titles, worthwhile Driving and Flight Sim titles, JRPGs, TPS, etc...
That's why I'm fed up because they mostly offer games with similar mechanics as others already in the market.



Goatseye said:
What happened to small 3D platformer or action/adventure games?
Can't they emulate games from N64 era?
Why the eff, No Man Sky devs (10 members) can make that game and devs backed by big 3 and EA/Ubisoft can't produce something with that much content and quality?
Where are sports titles, worthwhile Driving and Flight Sim titles, JRPGs, TPS, etc...
That's why I'm fed up because they mostly offer games with similar mechanics as others already in the market.


I can answer that tooo! =D (I am such a busybody.) By the look of things, No Man's Sky is being developed via the creation of what could be the most complex and detailed procedural generation engine ever made. Whereas AAA developers focus on making content 'by hand,' (placing individual trees and painting the rocks, as it were, which gobbles up time and money) the engine that the NMS devs created will cause the COMPUTER to create an absolutely massive game universe. An example they gave was they design the 'bare bones' for, say, a cat, and the engine will start producing everything from panthers to housecats to giant mutant purple-furred death cats, without any further work by the dev. So trees, bushes, dinosaurs, ships, all of them

In addition, each planet follows a set of 'rules,' where its mineral composition, and what kind of gasses are in the atmosphere, will decide how the ground looks, how the sky looks, and even whether there is life present, or how much. A planet far from the sun, or with no water, may have little to no life, and be a barren rock. While a planet in the Goldilocks zone, with plentiful water, will have plenty of plant and animal life.

The engine is so complex, the developers have made it clear that even they don't know everything in the universe that they themselves built.

 

TLDR; Technically, they aren't making a GAME, not in the traditional sense. They're making an engine that makes the game. A super cool, really complicated engine that might help revolutionize game development.

Oh, for JRPGs at least, check out Project Phoenix; an RTS JRPG that was kickstarted, but is being developed by veterans in the industry, including Final Fantasy composer Nobuo Uematsu. Last I checked, release plans, I believe, are PC and PS4, as when the game was initially funded, Microsoft hadn't begun their new indie policy, and so there were literally zilch plans to EVER bring it to Xbox platforms. That might have changed since then, obviously.



Zanten, Doer Of The Things

Unless He Forgets In Which Case Zanten, Forgetter Of The Things

Or He Procrascinates, In Which Case Zanten, Doer Of The Things Later

Or It Involves Moving Furniture, in Which Case Zanten, F*** You.

That's amazing. However, wouldn't repetition and similarities abound in a project like that?
I have to agree that the reward and success of this game is likely to be sky high. The premises of this engine is unheard of... at least to me.



Goatseye said:
That's amazing. However, wouldn't repetition and similarities abound in a project like that?
I have to agree that the reward and success of this game is likely to be sky high. The premises of this engine is unheard of... at least to me.


Well, that is the primary issue, yes; many procedurally generated games do suffer from repetition. However, it does look to be something they are actively trying to combat, because even though they already HAVE a game world, they are continuing to work on improving the engine, adding new elements and variables that increase the game universe's complexity. The trailers, from this year's E3 and last year's debut reveal, were taken in-game, in-universe. It wasn't a hand-crafted planet, the dev literally 'flew around in a ship until he found an interesting spot to record from,' and although he knew that a fleet would be passing through the system at a specific time, and naturally timed his recording to match, they didn't design a setpiece to MAKE the ships appear; they were just out on their usual convoy run. The universe is so massive, they have dozens of computer-controlled 'robots' flying around it, recording little animated gifs of planets so they can look for any terrible designs, (green sky, bright pink soil) that needs tweaking.

So yes, I think that things may be a little repetitive, but only in the way that a massive, galaxy-scale game could be; even if you, somehow, had developers 'hand painting' a setting that massive, instead of generating it randomly, you'd collide with repetition, because devs can only come up with so many unique-looking trees before going batshit crazy. xP It might actually end up being LESS repetitive, given the size of the universe, than anything a hand-crafting team of three hundred people could come up with in a similarly sized universe.



Zanten, Doer Of The Things

Unless He Forgets In Which Case Zanten, Forgetter Of The Things

Or He Procrascinates, In Which Case Zanten, Doer Of The Things Later

Or It Involves Moving Furniture, in Which Case Zanten, F*** You.

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fireburn95 said:
KLXVER said:
Im not anti-indie, but I dont buy consoles to play their games. They are a nice addition when the droughts are happening.


But I don't think there's ground for stupid facebookers to complain about games. A lack of indie's doesn't necessarily mean more AAA. 


 Everybody has thier own opinion though. I like some indie games, just bought Shovel Knights and I am having fun with it, however I would not deny that those games are not what everybody wants. I have several friends who they would not buy an indie game just because they can get "similar" games on their phones.

 Sadly, we can appreciate the value of an indie game, but not everybody can.



Menx64

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I agree with you on that. Hopefully by the time they release it on X1, they master their engine and make it even better than now; additionally, license it to other small dev teams to help them out.
Our conversation was very informative to me, thanks for our little debate. Stop by Xbox Empire if you like to discuss about anything.There's always something going on over there, you'd feel welcome.



menx64 said:
fireburn95 said:
KLXVER said:
Im not anti-indie, but I dont buy consoles to play their games. They are a nice addition when the droughts are happening.


But I don't think there's ground for stupid facebookers to complain about games. A lack of indie's doesn't necessarily mean more AAA. 


 Everybody has thier own opinion though. I like some indie games, just bought Shovel Knights and I am having fun with it, however I would not deny that those games are not what everybody wants. I have several friends who they would not buy an indie game just because they can get "similar" games on their phones.

 Sadly, we can appreciate the value of an indie game, but not everybody can.


But that's not an opinion. It's a crass statement "Yet another game that looks like it should've been made for my cellphone"

It's easy to judge behind a screen, but if he just looks at any behind the scenes game dev thingy, he'll know how many hours and hard work and sweat goes into making a game, even as simple-designed hohokum.

If he says something like it looks dull or boring, then fine that's his opinion. But there's no need for saying the game should be for smartphones as if smartphones is a wasteland for "shit" games, it's demeaning to the devs who certainly read the comments, it's crass and plain old stupid.

He's complaining about the presence of an indie game on ps4 rather than complaining about the actual game itself



Goatseye said:
I agree with you on that. Hopefully by the time they release it on X1, they master their engine and make it even better than now; additionally, license it to other small dev teams to help them out.
Our conversation was very informative to me, thanks for our little debate. Stop by Xbox Empire if you like to discuss about anything.There's always something going on over there, you'd feel welcome.


Not a problem, I'll pop by there sometime. =D I think I have a lot of opinions that would be UNPOPULAR over there, but I shall try to keep the peace at the very least. x3



Zanten, Doer Of The Things

Unless He Forgets In Which Case Zanten, Forgetter Of The Things

Or He Procrascinates, In Which Case Zanten, Doer Of The Things Later

Or It Involves Moving Furniture, in Which Case Zanten, F*** You.

I don't think it would be unpopular, unless it is insulting or rather very off-topic.