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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - N+ cost $214,000 to make for XBLA - how fast will it turn a profit?

well, it's a flash game..... I'll DL the demo and maybe it'll change my tune.



And that's the only thing I need is *this*. I don't need this or this. Just this PS4... And this gaming PC. - The PS4 and the Gaming PC and that's all I need... And this Xbox 360. - The PS4, the Gaming PC, and the Xbox 360, and that's all I need... And these PS3's. - The PS4, and these PS3's, and the Gaming PC, and the Xbox 360... And this Nintendo DS. - The PS4, this Xbox 360, and the Gaming PC, and the PS3's, and that's all *I* need. And that's *all* I need too. I don't need one other thing, not one... I need this. - The Gaming PC and PS4, and Xbox 360, and thePS3's . Well what are you looking at? What do you think I'm some kind of a jerk or something! - And this. That's all I need.

Obligatory dick measuring Gaming Laptop Specs: Sager NP8270-GTX: 17.3" FULL HD (1920X1080) LED Matte LC, nVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M, Intel Core i7-4700MQ, 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3, 750GB SATA II 3GB/s 7,200 RPM Hard Drive

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Here's some translated bits of an interview with Housemarque creative director Harri Tikkanen and the lead programmer of Super Stardust HD, Jere Sanisalo. The interview was published in two parts, the first on on 9th of May 2007, so I suppose the interview was actually done in April 2007. Anyway, here are some of the most interesting parts. Hope you enjoy!

"Making Super Startdust HD has been quite optimal for us. We've been working on the side with our own technology, which will enable us to do bigger games again in the future. Even though our priority is now on smaller games, we want to make bigger publications in addition to these ones.

Note the plural, as Stardust is not Housemarque's only small project. The studio is currently working on another game for the Xbox 360 Live Arcade."

"The development os Super Stardust HD was started on PC, and the first PS3 devkits arrived in December. The project proceeded smoothly from the start, big thanks of which goes to the good tools and existing game technology in Housemarque.

-After three weeks, the game was playable, Tikkanen sums up.

The development was still running on pc, but things got exciting when the first real PS3 consoles arrived. Will it work? Will it run? Does everything need to started from scratch?

-It was a heated phase. We didn't know how fast the PS3 really was, what the APIs were like, let alone if the tool would work. The first month we didn't get the game running at all, Tikkanen reminiscents.

-The beginning looked intimidating. Our goal right from the start was to get the game running 60 fps. The first working version did 10 fps, if that. "Wow, this main processor is slow." Then we just moved stuff over to the SPUs and slowly understood better how the main processor works, and we were able to get more power out of it. Still, half of the power, half of the SPUs, is currently free.

-The Cell is a really fast processor, Sanisalo remarks.

-It has one main processor and seven vector processors, a sensible amount of power and it all runs independent of the main processor. Thus all particle effects, rocks, physics, collisions, everything is running on the SPUs. The main processor doesn't have that much to do anymore. And the programming is easy. To simplify: on pc you have to direct the graphic card one order at a time from the main processor, on the PS3 you can create the draw list of the whole next screen and the graphics card fetches the next order automatically after completing the previous one, without disturbing other running processes."

"And the publishing? What's it looking like?

-The game will be published in all three main areas through the PSN. I don't know the details of how it will be marketed. Luckily the game doesn't absolutely have to sell really well in the first week. The shops are not going to return unsold games, Tikkanen ponders."

"Then on to the financial questions. How profitable is it to make PSN games? What kind of pre payments and provisions you get?

-There's no financial risk for us what so ever. The pre payments have been paid and the royalties are good. There is more to share without all the middlemen. I don't know how well PSN games sell, but there are some good games like Tekken Dark Resurrection and GripShift - and a lot more are coming. So we would like to continue along this line and it is looking good.

How is making and selling games through the PSN compared to Xbox Live Arcade? You're also making a digitally distributed game for the Xbox [360].

-It took quite awhile for good games to come to Arcade after Geometry Wars. Most of the arcade ports are poor, Tikkanen says and then compares the online sales strategies of the console giants.

-Sony has a different tactic in their online store compared to Microsoft. Sony buys and publishes the games themselves, so they have a whole different level of control over their portfolio. Microsoft, in their part, provides the game developers or publishers a slot for which to make a game. They, however, have to fund the development themselves or get funding from elsewhere. So, Microsoft does not buy the games.

So the developer bears the risk and they have to cover their costs on Arcade sales alone? Microsoft does not support the process?

-The sales of Arcade games have very good royalties. It's a good possibility for publishers and wealthy studios, but not everybody can afford to develop a game on their own. In addition, getting funding can be surprisingly difficult. So, publishing Arcade games has some of that traditional way, that the publisher pays for the development and takes its cut.

-I don't know how to get on the Sony side if you won't sell your game to them. I don't know if they even have free development on their side. I'm sure it's coming.

Can you clarify a bit, how do these Microsoft slots work?

-A slot is a certain predetermined publish date that gives the developer a kind of guarantee that another similar game won't be published close to it."

"In today's world you can play around much more with pricing using online distribution, with no physical product in the store shelves. Instead of a 60€ mega game, a 10€ or 20€ costing game can be a very good alternative.

-A price tag of 60€ is too limiting, Tikkanen complains. People dare not take risks, and that leads to games being more of the same and in the end that's bad for all. But now there's a possiblity to make more varied games. And especially for the PS3, there will be bigger games also.

That's because Sony doesn't enforce a strict size limit for the games. Xbox Live Arcade games have certain maximun size limits, mostly because of the Xbox 360s without hard drives. All PS3s are sold with a hard drive, so the games and take up hunders of megabytes, and with Sony's permission close to and even above a gigabyte."

In addition to the parts above, I saw an interview of some guy grom Housemarque (can't remember who it was), and he stated that making Super Stardust HD took five working years. I did a bit of digging and it seems a reasonable monthly salary of a game programmer in Finland is in the range of 1800-2500€. Going with the upper figure and adding 2500€ additional monthly costs for the developer per programmer, you get a total cost of 300 000€, which I believe is the upper limit. The real figure is probably less than that, but compared to the cost of N+ that doesn't seem too unreasonable, they are in the same ballpark.



Quick update for First Day sales:

N+ > Poker Smash (which sold 10,000 first 3 days).

Already has 3,840 as of 7:30am EST.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

I am really becoming impressed with the content on XBox Live Arcade. Every week there seems to be another enticing game launch, and it is starting to stray nicely from the "Past Hits" to some very original "addictive" content. The 360 casual content is growing at a rapid rate.