Gamerace said: I look at it this way. God is the universe and the universe is God. He exists everywhere, everywhen, everyhow even in the dimensions we cannot percieve. God knows everything, down to the tiny iota of matter/energy intimately. Human understanding is limited to what we can percieve and concieve. We have as much ability to truly understand God as an ant has of understanding New York City. Yes the ant can guess people are working (which he can relate to) but not all the ants in all the world in all of time could ever concieve of the political, economical, social, etc., etc. realities of New York. Nor can all of mankind in the history of mankind ever truly grasp the enormity of what God is. You cannot fully percieve him, our level of perception is very limited. Nor can our brains fully concieve him, it's just too small. But you can get to know Him. That's the beauty of it all.

  Call him up, I want to share a Jack and Coke with the man.  If said "God" and "Universe" is all in one, then this great and powerful being should be able to sit at a bar with me and say... "The churches have it right."  In fact, this great and powerful being should be able to do the exact thing I mention to EVERYONE on Earth at the same time since they should be able to bend reality and time to accomidate this menial task.  Then I'd believe.  Until then, Matter, and Energy have a few simple rules and patterns and such patterns and rules compound to form the world we know today where nobody is in control, and we all sit around arguing about an invisible man in the sky.

kergeten said: BTW Why is anyone even debating the existance of God when the church tht created it and is permanently associeted with it has done so much evil and hasnt served any of humanity's needs, and the book sustaining its existance is not only morally and ethically unacceptable by todays standards but is also just downright false. When dealing with something as absolute as the concept  GOd, the moment you find a single flaw in the book procliming the existance of God, and the institution sustaing it, is the moment you disprove GOD altogheter. Does not anyone see the geniuos simplicity of my thinking ? lol kiding. or am I?

kergeten,

 

Which church created god? the Jewish church? the catholic church(an extension of the roman empire)? The islamic church? How about King tut and the sun god(birth of monotheism?) or even father back and the sumerians with the unnamable shecalf? what about hindism or various american indian religions or the religions that are limited to a few group of people that live in the southeast pacific islands. How about the cult of mithris(a 2000 year old religion) or Zoarastism? What about the greek religion or the Roman deriviative? How about druids and the other celtic pre christian religions or nordic reliigons. The galloussians religions. The caininites and there god Molech? There are many religions in the world and even if religion didn't exist many of these evil things you speak of would of still happened.

 

No one church or religion created god. even from a secular viewpoint there is a progression that has occured with pretty much all religions many reflect the society they live in or angst against oprression of the place they live in. You want to talk about rough go read hammarabis code itwas brutal and it wasn't religous.

Disproving the bible is simple.

1) take the premise IN the bible that if you don't believe all of it, you effectively believe none of it.

2) Take Genesis: "God created 2 lights in the sky. One he called the sun, one he called the moon"

Well the moon isn't a light just like the earth isn't a light if you are standing on the moon looking up. If you don't believe the moon is a light then you don't believe the entire bible. Since the moon is not a light, by the bible's own admission, you can't believe any of it.

EDIT: For all those who are saying "God exists prove he doesn't," this is what you are telling everyone: Believe everything you are told until you see proof other wise.

So by your admission scientologists are right and an intergalactic warlord dropped aliens in to volcanoes whose souls are attached to us

And we believe mormons who say jesus was in America

And we believe Romans and Greeks who believed in numerous gods

And we believe that God would kill Oral Roberts if he didn't raise 8 million dollars (oh, wait, christians did believe that...)

Wrong wrong wrong.  You assume NOTHING unless there is proof the the contrary.  Ever heard of the Scientific method?  And no the bible is NOT proof, why would it be?  Because IT claims it is.  I can do that:

This post is the word of God, he talked to me, told me himself truely.  He said the bible is nonsense.  Prove me wrong.

@Final-fan

Your resoning is clearer,but, what I have to say is that all the good things that can be done with religion can be done without it, and that is most often the case. You're sayng that ist okay to impose stalinist comunism in order to get free healthcare and plenty of jobs, ignoring the fact that a moderate socialist system will get the job done without any of comunism's catastrophical side effects. 

kergeten said: fkusumot said: What does religion have to do with the existence of god? Next thing someone is going to prove the existence of Obi-Wan. O ye of little faith. Do you know anyone who has a firm convition in God and doesn't belong to any religion? BTW I belive in God, just that i Don't believe anything the church or the bible or any religios text has to say. Better said I belive in a Universal order that most mere mortals could only define as God.

 Yes I do. It sounds like you're one of them.

But anyways, what does it matter if someone has a firm conviction in god and does or doesn't belong to any religion? Does that have a bearing on the matter of whether god exists or not? 

redspear said: kergeten said: BTW Why is anyone even debating the existance of God when the church tht created it and is permanently associeted with it has done so much evil and hasnt served any of humanity's needs, and the book sustaining its existance is not only morally and ethically unacceptable by todays standards but is also just downright false. When dealing with something as absolute as the concept  GOd, the moment you find a single flaw in the book procliming the existance of God, and the institution sustaing it, is the moment you disprove GOD altogheter. Does not anyone see the geniuos simplicity of my thinking ? lol kiding. or am I?   kergeten,   Which church created god? the Jewish church? the catholic church(an extension of the roman empire)? The islamic church? How about King tut and the sun god(birth of monotheism?) or even father back and the sumerians with the unnamable shecalf? what about hindism or various american indian religions or the religions that are limited to a few group of people that live in the southeast pacific islands. How about the cult of mithris(a 2000 year old religion) or Zoarastism? What about the greek religion or the Roman deriviative? How about druids and the other celtic pre christian religions or nordic reliigons. The galloussians religions. The caininites and there god Molech? There are many religions in the world and even if religion didn't exist many of these evil things you speak of would of still happened.   No one church or religion created god. even from a secular viewpoint there is a progression that has occured with pretty much all religions many reflect the society they live in or angst against oprression of the place they live in. You want to talk about rough go read hammarabis code itwas brutal and it wasn't religous.

Are you arguing against my statement? cuz I agree with you completely. I never said religion was the only evil in this world, duh!!!

Mummelmann said: The Bible explained that there were 3 continents and that the earth was flat. Just a small sampling of "god's wisdom" back in the day. He should've went to school this god character...

The Bible never really mentions any continents. The bible never said the world was flat (was it the 4 horses of the apocolypse from each corner of the earth that confused you? or is thier an actual passage saying the earth is flat?)

 Isaiah 40:22  

22.God sits enthroned above the sphere of the earth

GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
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GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

Hmmm the bat is a bird?

DEU 14:11 Of all clean birds ye shall eat.
DEU 14:12 But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
DEU 14:13 And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind,
DEU 14:14 And every raven after his kind,
DEU 14:15 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
DEU 14:16 The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan,
DEU 14:17 And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant,
DEU 14:18 And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

Insects have 4 legs?

LEV 11:21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;
LEV 11:22 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.
LEV 11:23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.