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Forums - Gaming Discussion - UNITY - Nintendo & Wii U Finish The REVOLUTION

"•Point 2: Why I Told Seece to 'Wait in Line, Son'•

When somebody is badgering you, heckling you, blowing up your wall constantly, what reaction do you think someone like that deserves?
I'm not gonna entertain that kind of behavior so I told him to wait in line until I dealt with the people ahead of him with VALID discussion points.
A performer's on stage & some audience member is just rudely heckling the performer. Trying to disrupt the show.
The performer cannot focus on the attention-hungry disrupter. The performer must serve the rest of the audience interested in the performance.
Performers CAN show up the heckler & make a spectacle out of him but the VGChartz venue doesn't allow for that possibility.
So instead I will talk to those LIKE YOU with a valid discussion point aggressive at it may be. Once I'm done doing that, then I will address Seece.
The "son" part was just for flavor. "



LOL I've posted on your wall twice, and if it's heckling to shoot your ridiculous OP down in posts under 50 words long then I'm gonna keep on hecklin'.

I skimmed your post (naturally) didn't see anything about how the WiiU is actually going to win, nothing about your predictions ect ect. As always Mummel is right, you deflect, talk about nonsense and think you're right.

January will be all the more sweeter, then the January after, and the January after.



 

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My body was *not* ready for that post. Mummelmmann, may God be with you



Mummelmann said:

Your comment was complex but not confusing. I could fully understand your view about the industry and your answer to my question. And, although I don't share your opinion in several points, I like the way you think.

Like you, I see the 90's and yearly 2000's as the times golden age of gaming, the Era when each and every feature was subject to evolution, making gamers believing anything was possible. Unlike you, I saw many (if not most) of my favourite game series to end before having the chance to deliver sequels in these times of lack of full evolution so I couldn't see what they would do nowadays (this is even sadder). Among the ones that did have sequels, some were disappointing but others were honorable iterations. And new interesting series emerged too. So, in the end, I can say there's a bit of everything.

Maybe I was happier in the 90's, but then it can be me getting older (not in the discovery phase anymore) than any other factor. We must not forget that new gamers are borning everyday and PS4/XOne can be for them the shiny beginning PS1 or PS2 were for many others. Therefore, series not evolving can't be that criticized (thinking about your western examples: Ratchet & Clank and Need For Speed). As for your japanese examples (Final Fantasy and Gran Turismo), I just reaffirm what I said in my last post.

You may think I'm not being as demanding as I should (for being satisfied with small evolutions or even just graphical updates) but remember most of my favourite series either got worse or had no sequels at all. Then why would I criticize Nintendo when they hardly end or even damage series? Because, as a game developer, that's far from being enough to praise them. In the same way (or even harder, once it's a personal matter), I criticize each and every developer that ended, damaged or haven't significantly evolved one of my favourite game series.

But Nintendo isn't just a game developer, they are also a console maker. And, in that area, they are even worse. The lack of power on Wii and Wii U is nothing more than Nintendo (the once industry's pioneer) rejecting that crown and saying "We don't even want to try". This scennario gets even worse when we look at the profits they have been making among the years. Rephrasing it, it would be like "We have been making billions with you but we aren't willing to increase our 6000 staff structure or any other measure that would allow us to continue evolving like we did so far. Thank you for your money but now we will keep it.".

Sony and Microsoft are totally different. They invest as much as (or even more than) they earn. They follow a strategy of product dissemination (lowering the price of consoles and games along the time) rather than adopting a stubborn position like "our little cartoonish platformer game worths 50 euros, either you spend them or you don't play it". They offer instant game collections and games every month for online-subscription services rather than some 5% or 10% discounts on game purchases for owners of the premium console version. They create the most powerful machines they can and sell them at a loss. Etc.

More revenue means more responsibility too. If Sony/Microsoft can engage into a strategy in which the break-even will be at the 1st or 2nd game sold, Nintendo can make it in the 3rd or 4th. Wii U could be as powerful as the PS4, continue to have the tablet, priced at 300 euros...and yet Nintendo wouldn't be as committed as Sony or Microsoft. Now immagine, with billions of euros, what could they have been doing in game development...

When you say that between Sony/Microsoft and Nintendo you would be chosing the lesser of two evils, this is where I mostly disagree with you. In my opinion, a console maker shouldn't be blamed for the game developers' behaviour. Some are bad, some are good, but Sony and Microsoft embrace them all, unlike Nintendo that limits their console from the start and doesn't work hard on good relationships with third-parties.

Do I think PS4 and XOne are perfect systems? Not at all. I'm a PC gamer like you that is also focusing more on PC than consoles at the moment. But I don't think simplicity could be the only reason for one to buy a console rather than investing on the PC. Price is also a very significant factor: spending 400/500 euros on a system that will perfectly run all the games during 7 or 8 years is much cheaper than the PC investment needs. And sometimes, among the exclusives, there are games we can't ignore.

I admit that I'm planning to buy a PS4 and so far there's not 1 single exclusive that is forcing me to make that decision. But I must remember that Sony has 14 devs working hard on new titles and it's almost certain that some will make the console to conquer a place in my heart besides the PC ecosystem.



Prediction made in 14/01/2014 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 70M      WiiU: 25M

Prediction made in 01/04/2016 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 18M

Prediction made in 15/04/2017 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 90M      XOne: 40M      WiiU: 15M      Switch: 20M

Prediction made in 24/03/2018 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 110M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 14M      Switch: 65M

johnlucas said:

When asked about Nintendo's current market strategy Iwata explained that it still aimed to pursue "gaming population expansion"

...

You see that? They wanted EVERYBODY to play. All ages, all sexes, all backgrounds, all fans of all genres, new players & veteran players.

Sure they want everybody's money. To say "I want" costs me nothing. But you fail to see that what they DO is not coherent with what they say. And spare me about the explanations of how they "actually did everything in order to achieve that" because if that had the slightest chance of being true you would have said it in there.

You spend ages creating a 35000 words post to have this quality of reasoning?? You may not value your time, but I do value mine. So I will not spend it reading your entire post. And, if I were Mummelmann, I wouldn't bother to address it all. I would probably do what I just did (to focus on 1 single point just to show you how pointless it is to debate with you).



Prediction made in 14/01/2014 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 70M      WiiU: 25M

Prediction made in 01/04/2016 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 18M

Prediction made in 15/04/2017 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 90M      XOne: 40M      WiiU: 15M      Switch: 20M

Prediction made in 24/03/2018 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 110M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 14M      Switch: 65M

Holy fuck that's a long post.



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johnlucas said:

If the Wii U fails to fulfill my 12 million call for 2013, then Nintendo will correct that mistake by making the 35 million for 2014.
They miss a few plays but they'll win the game, remember what I tell you.
Nintendo didn't come here to fail, boys. Make no mistake that the plan they have for Wii U will come to fruition.
Wii U will lead the 8th generation & bring Unity to the videogame world. No mistaking that.

You know, I've noticed this mentality among a lot of the people who expected a Wii U resurgence in the second half of the year.  Even as the weeks and then months went by without a turnaround, some would still hold to their initial predictions.  Not just what they expected in say November and December, but the total amount.  I have to wonder how you (and they) justify this to yourself?  Why exactly would you expect the Wii U to do even better than you predicted next year when this year has so far been nowhere close?

It would be one thing if you just expected the 23 million for 2014 that you originally predicted.  It would likely still be misguided, but I can see you justifying it to yourself based on your expectations for Mario Kart or Smash.  Why though would your expectations jump to 29+ million?  I'm just curious how you rationalize that.

I don't even see Nintendo being able to get 29 million Wii U's into the hands of consumers even if there was demand for it.  The Wii peaked at 24.2 million in a calendar year, and that was with both Nintendo and retailers knowing there was huge demand.  Even if 2014 averaged three times more than the Wii U has done in the first week of December 2013 it would fail to hit 35 million.  So when exactly in 2014 would the Wii U experience this rush of demand?  Just to put it into perspective, the Wii's worst week in 2008 was ~207k in mid January when it was supply constrained after the holidays.  You are expecting the Wii U to beat that when in December it is falling short of the worst week for the Wii in 2008.



JK I like you, but your sales numbers are out of whack if you know what I mean



That was literally the longest post I have EVER seen on the Internet.

D:

tl;dr



So...what I understood from that post was....


This site doesn't have a character limit



Yakuzaice said:
johnlucas said:

If the Wii U fails to fulfill my 12 million call for 2013, then Nintendo will correct that mistake by making the 35 million for 2014.
They miss a few plays but they'll win the game, remember what I tell you.
Nintendo didn't come here to fail, boys. Make no mistake that the plan they have for Wii U will come to fruition.
Wii U will lead the 8th generation & bring Unity to the videogame world. No mistaking that.

You know, I've noticed this mentality among a lot of the people who expected a Wii U resurgence in the second half of the year.  Even as the weeks and then months went by without a turnaround, some would still hold to their initial predictions.  Not just what they expected in say November and December, but the total amount.  I have to wonder how you (and they) justify this to yourself?  Why exactly would you expect the Wii U to do even better than you predicted next year when this year has so far been nowhere close?

It would be one thing if you just expected the 23 million for 2014 that you originally predicted.  It would likely still be misguided, but I can see you justifying it to yourself based on your expectations for Mario Kart or Smash.  Why though would your expectations jump to 29+ million?  I'm just curious how you rationalize that.

I don't even see Nintendo being able to get 29 million Wii U's into the hands of consumers even if there was demand for it.  The Wii peaked at 24.2 million in a calendar year, and that was with both Nintendo and retailers knowing there was huge demand.  Even if 2014 averaged three times more than the Wii U has done in the first week of December 2013 it would fail to hit 35 million.  So when exactly in 2014 would the Wii U experience this rush of demand?  Just to put it into perspective, the Wii's worst week in 2008 was ~207k in mid January when it was supply constrained after the holidays.  You are expecting the Wii U to beat that when in December it is falling short of the worst week for the Wii in 2008.

Indeed, WiiU does abysmally this holiday, lower than Dreamcast and Gamecube, and naturally JL ups his 2014 prediction and thinks it'll sell 30m which is the highest a home console has ever sold in history.

Pretty much confirms this is a joke thread.

I wonder if when WiiU struggles past 10m by the end of 2014 will he stick to his 60m~ prediction for end of 2015 and expect a whopping 50m in 2015

There is no logic and common sense, it's getting to the point where this thread just needs to be locked.