Well John. If you're going to be proven right this year, September's price drop and release schedule will prove it.

I can't wait to update my sales comparison thread throughout that month.

This... This is beautiful. I knew Nintendo had a relaunch planned. I still predict a Wii Fit U and Super Mario 3D World Bundle. Do that and market the hell out of this, and they'll literally outshine the competition. Always let them think they're ahead before you strike and strike hard.

The Nintendomination is has started, and it shall spare no casualties.

Sony: We have one million pre-orders.

One for each of our troops.

Nintendo: We have a Hulk:

New Wii U Zelda Bundle + New 2DS + Pokemon X/Y + Free online = Still cheaper than the Xbox One.

New Wii U Zelda Bundle + Free online = $100+ cheaper than the PS4.

Vita: I'm so glad I finally got a price cut! :) Now my sales can finally pick up!

Nintendo: Lets release a new 2DS for $70 cheaper than the Vita on the same day as Pokemon X and Y, the latest edition to the most powerful handheld franchise in the world and the second best selling video game franchise of all time, because WHY THE FUCK NOT?

Vita: FUUUUUUUUUU-!!!!!

I rest my case.

Only a few more months, and we will see if johnlucas was right. Gonna be funzies! Will sales explode with the release of Super Mario 3D World like it did with the release of Super Mario Galaxy? We'll soon see.

What sales explosion are you referring too?  Wii was constantly sold out everywhere for practically two years which had way more to do with Wii Sports (80m) and Wii Fit (40m) than SMG (10m).   Considering Nintendo was selling Wiis as fast as they could make them at that point (prior to SMG release) there's no basis for saying it caused any increase at all (although, for sure it didn't hurt any!) let alone an 'explosion'.   Use Mario Sunshine as a more meaningful example.

Gamerace, nice to hear from you again.
You said a lot here so let me answer thoroughly.

It is true. Apple & the smartphone gang disrupted Nintendo. They rocked them good.
Like I said in the thread they absorbed what Nintendo started with DS & Wii then employed it for their own benefit.
Nintendo first tried to cut them off with the DSi. It does pretty much everything a smartphone does except make calls.
For example I use my DSi like some people use their smartphones (I don't own any cell phone or smartphone).

There's the Nintendo Countdown Calendar to track important dates; there's the Animal Crossing & Mario Calculators to add things up; there's the Animal Crossing, Mario, & Photo Clocks to use as an alarm to wake up (not to mention the default alarm in all DS's); there's the DSi Cameras to take pictures; there's DSi Sound to play music from your SD Card; there's various keyboard apps like 'Music on' which allow you to play a song; there's the DSi Instrument Tuner to help you sing on key; there's the DSi Metronome to help you keep on beat; there's Flipnote Studio to make animations; there's Pictochat to write messages on; there's various apps like myPostcards, myNotebook, & myDiary to write notes & memos on; there's the Internet Browser to check whatever you need online (like bank account, Wikipedia, sports scores, whatever).
Add all the onboard & offboard games to the list & you have a pretty robust system.
All it doesn't do is make phone calls. It pretty much does everything else.

Wasn't enough to stop the smartphones so Nintendo put together the 3DS which has all the functionality of the DSi along with a whole new set of functions.
A stronger Internet Browser, 3D Cameras that allow video recording, Swapnote being more versatile than Pictochat, Game Notes which allow you to write notes & memos, all of it powered by the very versatile StreetPass & SpotPass functions of the handheld.
Once again add in all the onboard & offboard games to the list & you'll find that it does pretty much everything else except make phone calls.

But the 3DS can only parallel the smartphone gang, never eliminate them. Why?
Because the smartphones & their bigger brothers the tablets represent the NEW PC market.
This new PC market finally figured out how to CONSOLE-IZE the Personal Computer.
The desktops & laptops are heavy duty machines that can never really be as accessible as a console is whether handheld or home-based.
They still have roots in office functions, business functions. They're workhorses. And it's hard to make a workhorse a fun machine.
Tablets & smartphones (which are just mini-tablets anyway) are simplified & not usable for heavy duty use.

But most people never used the computer to its full capacity anyhow. They use it to browse the Web & look at Facebook or Instagram or YouTube.
They use it to play on-board Solitaire, Hearts, Minesweeper, & a host of Web-based games. Even less write documents or notes on it.
They used to send e-mails on it. They may have went on Instant Messenger programs like Yahoo Messenger. Some go to Adult Friend Finder & other meat market services. They use it for porn viewing. They use it for the chatrooms. Maybe some print things from it. Maybe some pay their bills online.
But for the most part, most people don't deal heavily with the full functions of a computer.
And the stuff most people use it for is a result of the emergence of the World Wide Web.

This makes the simplified console-ized tablet & mini-tablet (smartphone) perfect.
You don't need heavy storage because most computer users wouldn't know what to do with all that space anyway.
Let the cloud take care of everything. Simpler form factor, sleeker aesthetics, easier to understand interface.
Nintendo's DS line has the laptop form-factor with its foldable ends. Good for protecting screens but whipping out a glass-faced baseball card & just running your finger across it is simpler & easier to get to than the DS's open-up & stylus-touch format.
The glass-faced baseball card is easier to store in a pocket too. Never mind how fragile most of these phones are.
My DSi fell on hard concrete from 6 feet up & didn't have a scratch on it much less a cracked screen.
Doesn't matter. People want the sleeker form factor & accessibility of the smartphone over the durability of a DS.

Yes these days the kids are playing on smartphones & tablets of one brand or another. It's true.
But remember what happened 30 years ago (28 to be exact).
This little Japanese company named Nintendo held off the omnipresent home computer & created the current reality we live in now where consoles even EXIST.
Consoles should have been dead 30 years ago. The kids were playing on home computers back then since you could do your homework on it AND play games too. Commodore 64, Amiga, Atari ST, MSX, BBC Micro, Sinclair ZX Spectrum, & so on.
Nintendo never stopped people from using home computers, personal computers.
They just made a proposal that weakened the games market on those platforms.

And the current reality from that is that old-market PC games of the desktop & laptop era sit on the shelves wide open while console games are protected by plexiglass & other elaborate security measures.
The old PC games market still exists but it has been absolutely dwarfed by the console games market.
Microsoft finished off what was left of this market by pretty much absorbing them into the XBox.
Most if not all of the old PC game developers now make their stuff for the consoles one way or another.
Even Valve-man Gabe Newell put out Portal 2 on the XBox 360. The Steam-master even gave props to console game classic Super Mario 64 which convinced him that videogames are art.

I wouldn't get too excited about the mobile market.
It's easy to have 100s of millions of people play your game when it only costs a dollar to buy or is even FREE.
I'm looking on Wikipedia's best-selling games of all-time list & they break it down by platform.
Funny thing I notice when I get to the Mobile Phone section...
I look at Angry Birds under the Paid Downloads caption & it says 12 million. Not bad.
I look at Angry Birds under the Freemium caption & it says 1 billion. Hmmmm...
What that tells me is that even though Angry Birds has an appeal that can reach 1 billion, that appeal is only strong enough to get 12 million of that 1 billion to actually PAY for it.
Only 12/1000 of the potential audience was willing to spend any amount of money on the game & that amount was low to begin with.
Not 12% of that audience. 1.2% of that audience. A little over a penny on a dollar.
It's telling that Tetris, Pac-Man, & even Sonic outrank Angry Birds on the Paid Downloads list.
12 million is a very good number but Nintendo sees that number often & many times surpasses it.
Nintendo sold over 40 million bathroom scales called Wit Fit Balance Boards at $90 a pop, remember.
That's hard to do but they did it.

There's a reason why the console & old-PC developers haven't jumped fully on board to the smartphone/tablet PC games market.
They know that it will reduce the videogame business to a commodity & eventually they will make no significant money making games for a living.
The Web-game model used by the smartphones & tablets restricts the type of games you can put on a platform.
If games are going to be sold for a dollar or even offered under Freemium plans, there's no incentive to create anything terribly innovative or intensive.
The game makers are going to be in the mindset of turning over those dollars as quick as possible & look for addictive fads to jumpstart this process.
Everybody will be making some quick-play Angry Birds or Candy Crush Saga clone & as more & more of them flood the platform, the games become interchangeable. It's what happened on the Facebook Web-game platform.
Dirty Zynga with their Mafia Wars which so many say ripped off Mob Wars (I still don't know how they got away with flat copying Scrabble & calling it Words with Friends).
When games are cheap or free like that people are less discerning & say one is as good as another.
Sort of like with what happens with store brand foods being side by side with the originating brand.
Do you always buy Duracell or Energizer batteries or do you most likely get the cheaper Rayovac or some other obscure brand saying one is as good as the other?

Let me go further with why the Web-game business model restricts the variety of games.
Since most of them operate on the Freemium model, gameplay gets hijacked by annoying "wanna pay now?" schemes that Zynga is known for.
Do something & all of sudden "Invite a friend!". Do something else & then "You need this tool to pass. Buy it here!".
The business model is so desperate to turn money that it can interfere with gameplay.
The free version only allows you to play 30 of the 100 stages. How many will pay the money to play the full 100 stages?
And since it's a business model so desperate to make money, what happens when gameplay advantages are tilted towards those who would pay the money?
It's one thing to have a single player game like Candy Crush. But what happens when there's a multiplayer game & one's a freeper & the other pays?
What happens to the gameplay balance when the one that pays gets better tools, weapons, powers than the one who plays for free?
What happens to the playing experience as a result?

The old coin-op arcade business model worked on people's lack of skill. You COULD possibly play the entire game for just one quarter, just 25¢, but most likely you're putting in constant quarters to keep playing. That's how they made their profits. The model is biased towards player skill over player wealth.
A rich man with all the quarters in the world can get destroyed by a homeless man holding just one quarter he found on the street.
That's a beautiful social statement in my opinion.
In every other facet of life, I may be downtrodden & forgotten. But on this arcade game machine, I'm on top of the world & everybody is in awe of me.
In the Web-game model, it would be the old status quo. Those with the green rule the scene.

You're in a boom cycle right now with the mobile game market but the bust is coming because ultimately the business model isn't sustainable.
There will always be games on that platform but as time goes on the limitations of the market & the platform will become apparent to all.
It's very telling that as much money developers/publishers made from their mobile game hits that they STILL put the game out in console form.
There's something undeniable about PHYSICAL media. Digital Angry Birds could be forgotten as soon as the download service disappears (the instability of the Web).
But when you see that physical game package they can fortify their longevity in history.

Plants & Zombies, Angry Birds, Bejeweled, Minecraft, Cake Mania, Fish Tycoon, & others will be seen 25 years later in some out of the way old games shop & conjure up good memories. Memories that inspire a purchase.
If these memories are strong enough these old games can fetch good prices on the Amazons & Craiglists of the future.
The game shops & pawn shops in my area (not talking about that lousy GameStop crap) have lots of old NES/SNES/N64/GC/GB/GBC/GBA games to look through. I just saw Hogan's Alley in one of them. I bought Rad Racer from that shop earlier for less than $5 & will probably pick up Hogan's Alley soon.
I still have my Zapper & the system still works (except for my faulty AC Adapter which I'll get fixed).
Can't do this if the games are all digital & dependent on hosting from a Web service or a server.

The console environment is STILL the proving grounds.
The mobile/digital market is a great supplement, a great reservoir for upstart developers to make a name for themselves, but they all come to the consoles to see how much their idea is REALLY loved. Will your fans pay you $30, $40, $50, $60 for your idea?
Zynga was all the rave not too long ago & now look at them. The company's on a crash course.
Nintendo has weathered every storm this industry has thrown at it & still carries on.
Mario has survived & thrived throughout every era. Can those Angry Birds do the same?

First off Gamerace, let's kill this nonsense called 'Casual Gamer' & 'Hardcore Gamer'. It was always marketing BS.
They are grandmas who play Bookworm hardcore & college dudes that play Madden casually.
So does that make Bookworm a hardcore game & Madden a casual game? Or does it spell out that maybe just maybe these terms are not accurate altogether?
This stuff didn't exist in the era of Atari 2600, in the era of the NES. There were just people from all walks of life who played games.
The so-called soccer mom, the chain-smoking bachelor, the teenage whiz kid who could build his own computer, your little sister, a deer hunter from the woods of Georgia, a Hollywood movie star on the set, a lonely widow who plays to mediate her grief, a local stripper, your pastor/rabbi/general spiritual leader, a garbage man, a skateboarder, a street B-ball player, an accomplished scientist, an opera singer, a street fighter, a gang member, a judge, The President, paramedics, retirees & pensioners, preschoolers, someone who works a low-paying McJob, a billionaire, circus performers, race car drivers, Mensa members, sex workers, inventors, musicians, political activists, janitors, people who live in the cul-de-sac, people who live in the projects.
Just people from all walks of life who play games.

I said that Wii U is Wii Part 2. The 3rd party locked together on Microsoft's & Sony's platforms to stop the Revolution.
Nintendo is using Wii U to break the lockdown. They put a few more ingredients into the Wii formula designed to trap the 3rd parties into finally relenting.
So far the 3rd parties are still fighting Nintendo & trying to starve the system like they did to Wii.
Short-term that will work for the 3rd parties. Long-term Nintendo will reap the benefits as the 3rd parties finally get in line.
The 3rd parties won't go to the mobile platforms for the reasons I mentioned earlier.
They would have already abandoned both Microsoft AND Sony for the mobile market if it was as healthy as you make it out to be.
All those obscene revenues & you DON'T think the 3rd party establishment would jump in headfirst???

I mentioned earlier in this thread that Microsoft & Sony are about to hit a wall with XBox One & PlayStation 4.
For one reason they're fighting themselves with the still popular XBox 360 & PS3.
Sony bombed out with the PS3 & spent years trying to turn the system into some kind of success.
Over the years all the packed-in Blu-ray functionality & power of the system has begun to pay off.
Too late to win the 7th gen but enough to give PS3 solid sales for the rest of its planned 10 year cycle.
The recent price drop of the PS3 to $200 will interfere with sales of the PS4 at its $400 price & lack of backward compatibility with PS3 disc games.

See unlike the days of the 5th generation & back, consoles are no longer mere playing devices anymore. The change started in the 6th generation & became prominent in the 7th.
Now a console has your playing history, its own personalized account, customized features, its own photo/video/audio libraries. They have become an ecosystem for the player.
A player puts so much of himself/herself into the console that the system becomes an integral part of his/her general lifestyle.
After investing so much of your personality in the PS3, do you think it's easy to just leave it behind ESPECIALLY with a system that won't retain all of what you put into the older one?

Same goes for the XBox 360 if not a little bit moreso.
The 360 is Microsoft's most successful console. It was easier to make the transition from XBox to XBox 360 because original XBox wasn't as successful.
But the 360's relative success to generation-leader Wii makes it harder to leave it behind especially with the same lack of backward compatibility & even higher $500 XBox One price.
It was hard for the PS3 to get out of the shadow of the PS2 which had less of that personalization seen in all of the 7th gen consoles.
Maybe this is one reason Nintendo essentially killed the Wii prematurely.
They didn't want to be fighting their own phenomenon like PS3 had to do with the PS2.
And by having backwards compatibility to the extreme (controllers & all) it will make it easier for players to transition from Wii to Wii U.
Old Wiis become hand-me-downs played in a certain room in the house especially with the gutting of WiiConnect24 functionality (I think they should have done this differently. Should have included it in larger Nintendo Network in my opinion).

The other reason & probably the foundational reason why Microsoft & Sony are gonna hit the wall in the 8th gen is the Graphics thing.
I had a reply somewhere in this thread showcasing the same character from PS3's Killzone 3 & PS4's Killzone: Shadow Fall (Killzone 4).
See if you notice the difference in graphics.

Does this REALLY warrant all the extra expense for a new console?
Yes I know it's an early edition PS4 game to a late edition PS3 game but still...
To me it seems like what's done in Killzone: Shadow Fall could be done on Killzone 3 with simple art design choices not graphical power.
XBox One's Killer Instinct looks like it could be done on the XBox 360 now!

How many sides does it take to make a cube? 6. Just 6. Trying to add an extra side is redundant. It only needs 6 sides.
Once all the tools you use fulfill the goal you don't need more tools.
Nobody beats Nintendo in gamecraft so they have to use the allure of power to get the edge on the master gamecrafter.
Now power doesn't pay off anymore & you are playing on the same plane, the same level as the master gamecrafter. What do you do now?
The HD Twins really didn't stop the SD phenomenon known as Wii. They just stalled the inevitable completion of the Revolution.
As this generation goes on, Nintendo will separate the wheat from the chaff.
The XBox One controller is virtually no different than the XBox 360 controller.
The PlayStation 4 controller is still that same doubled-up Super Nintendo/Nintendo 64 design it has been the past 20 years except with a screen in the middle (their attempt to answer the Wii U).
When people talk about a "traditional controller" who's tradition are they speaking of?
Nintendo's tradition: The NES/Famicom Standard of 1983.
But the REAL Nintendo tradition is reshaping & making new standards in the controller to bring out new playing experiences.
The other guys will have games that look about the same as the last ones & play the same as the last ones.
That wears thin after awhile & eventually franchises grow stale.

Once Wii U is understood at large, it will dominate. You have to touch Wii U unlike Wii. Wii you could see from afar. You have to put your hands on Wii U.
I once thought the tablet controller was contradictory but it turns out to be complementary.
They essentially made your TV a DS yet with all the appeal that a home console brings.
And as for the Wii U versus the tablets. They will not stop people from using tablets.
But they WILL wreck the gaming market on tablets just like they wrecked the gaming market on PCs 30 years ago.
Solid buttons still matter. Precision gameplay still matters. Tablets will have games & will be used for all sorts of functions.
But gaming will still rule on the consoles because Nintendo will insist that the consoles rule gaming.

Wii U is Nintendo's Catch-All Answer to ALL of their competition on ALL sides. It's the Multi-Strike.
They will break the blockade of the 3rd parties in the console realm, they will stem the flow of gaming centering on the tablets & smartphones.
Like I said, U stands for Unity.
That U-shaped magnet will draw them all back home.
John Lucas

I gave up in the middle of the read, sorry.

But well... at least i took a look to the amusing part, the one of the sales predictions.

You're simply wrong.

Open your eyes for a moment and come back from your dreamworld. Someone isn't wrong because you don't like his opinions. Perhaps its sales predictions are a bit to high, but who knows. There will be Zelda, a new 3D Mario, a new Wii Party, a new Donkey Kong, a new Wii Fit, a new Sonic and a new Mario & Sonic these holidays exclusive for the Wii U.

On top of that games like a new Assassins Creed, a new Batman, a new Call of Duty, a new Just Dance, a new Lego game, a new Skylanders and Watch Dogs out before december. 

On top of that a price cut and new bundles.

On top of that a 2014 lineup thats look great even now and although it only consist Nintendo games: A new Mario Kart, a new Smash Bros, a new Bayonetta, a Xenoblade successor.

The Wii U will have a very interesting holiday. 

Thanks for the detailed replied.  It's good to have these deep conversations on VGChartz again.

While I agree with much of what you're saying, you still seem to be making some massive leaps in logic without basis.

Yes - It's true PS4/XB1 really offer almost nothing that PS3/360 doesn't already and I expect them to have a harder time moving people to the new system than from PS2/Xb to PS3/360 - but that also happened over a process of years.   

Yes - the AAA game mentality will be challenging for the industry to maintain.  Yes Call of Duty will get old and decline.  But give these guys (3rd parties) some credit.  They know how to make appealing games.  Look at Last of Us.  Coming out in the seventh year of this gen, and this game is guaranteed to have sequels.  So it's not all doom and gloom.   3rd parties continue to offer new experiences, and many would argue, Nintendo does not.  IS NSMBU really any different than NSMBWii?  

In fact this is one of my major grievences with WiiU - that pretty much all the games could have been on Wii.  So them asking me for $300 to play the same games now in HD is unappealing.  I would have bought some of their upcoming games if they were on Wii, but I'm not sold on buying a WiiU.  They just don't look different enough from what I have now (Mario Kart Wii, SSBB, NSMBWii, Wii Party, Wii Fit) to justify a new system purchase (or the games are too similar to what I could have on 3DS which is a cheaper system and at least is something different than my Wii (portable)).   And I am as big a Wii fan as you will ever find. I should be the easy money they make.  I can't count how many hundreds I spent on Wii systems/games/accessories but WiiU?  Not interested.   That is a huge problem.

Yes, there are gamers will be spend whatever to play the lastest in the series - these folks, by and large, are on PS360 and many will get PS4/XBOne to continue to play the latest version of the same game now in 4000k.  And 3rd parties are going to continue to cater to this market.  

What market will they appeal to on WiiU?  Nintendo fans? They don't buy 3rd party stuff, no matter how good it is.  Their was some great stuff on previous gens than Nintendo fans ignored.  Zack & WIki, Okami, Beyond Good and Evil, etc. Even when 3rd parties make games comparible to Nintendos, they can't possibly realize Nintendo like sales on a Nintendo console.  People, now more than ever, only buy a Nintendo console for Nintendo games.  

The other market Wii had was the so-called casual gamer, people who will not buy each in a series of games continuously, but rather wants new experiences.  One version of Boom Blox was enough for them, and we saw that time and again on Wii with sequels selling far less then the original idea. Even in Nintendo games.   WiiU - again - is offering nothing 'new', another mario game, another DKC, another Wii Party, a third Wii Fit.  BORING!   And asking $300 to play the same games at $60 a pop?  Not happening.   Especially when this market is getting new game experiences constantly on mobile.

RE: Mobile - I concur that the current market on mobile will crash as it's unsustainable I feel.  But that's not to say games won't continue to be sold on mobile, it'll just shrink, less garbage for free, more gems for real money.   This is a natural part of the evolution and we saw this in the early console market too with a glut of systems and copycat games only to crash and be reborn as something better.   But no way is that something better going to be WiiU (or 3DS). People won't go from free to $60/game (or $40).   They'll go to 5-15 games, and maybe in time that'll creep up and up as games offered get bigger, better, more console like.

As far as controls, there's lots of options to use a gaming controller to play mobile games and not only do systems like Ouya allow off TV play but so does Galaxy 4 - with a controller no less.  It's also incorrect to say 3rd party console game makers are ignoring mobile.  They are all on mobile!!  In fact, for many of them mobile is a significant profit generator to they point that whole studios are being turned or created to be mobile studios only.  They are also looking to make mobile gaming a part and parcel of the console gaming experience.  Many upcoming games will have a mobile app that allows you to contine playing the game when away from home, in some regard.   As mobile devices continue to grow in power, the difference between console play and complimentary mobile play will shrink until it's basically the same.    Like every Blu-ray now comes with a digital download (and DVD - ha ha) so will consoles games come with a free app to allow continued play away from home.

Also re mobile:  You should get a smart phone, they do so much more than you are giving them credit for.  Apps are a wonderful game changer as it makes life so much simplier when you can instantly know when the next bus is coming, the weather, where the closest coffee shop is, GPS, all your social networking without having to go through a browers to the internet.   Just touch the app, boom, there's the info you need, instantly.  3DS is not comparible to that.  Sorry. Nintendo also does a s--t job of letting people know about all that functionality.   EVEN THEIR OWN USERS!  I can't tell you how many Wii owners I know who didn't know about VC/WW.  Completely oblivious.   But on their smartphone they know how to get apps.   Nintendo has improved on this with 3ds/WiiU I hope and trust but still, does anyone (aside from the avid users) know 3DS and WiiU are capable of such functionality?  People still think WiiU is a Wii with a gamepad.

Even on gamer forums I'm seeing people asking how to run a WiiU game on their Wii.  Nintendo is in trouble with this.  If you think Sony/MS has a problem moving people from 7th to 8th, then you have to acknowledge Nintendo has the same problem.  NSMBU looks exactly the same as NSMBWii except to the trained eye.   I've looked at comparison videos.  It's not an obvious difference.  So why is Nintendo any different?  Oh... gamecrafting.   Tell them to gamecraft something new instead of red ocean BS catering to their old, Nintendo faithful.    It seems Nintendo has totally given up on market they attracted with Wii/DS.  What are they doing to keep/lure them back?  I see nothing.  They sit in their little Nintendo IP corner, no longer innovating, trying to profit off their dwindling base and kids.   Wii Party U and Wii Fit U?  A waste!!  Wii Party only sales with a controller.   REALLY? Are they mad?  Who needs yet another Wiimote at this point?  And Wii Fit U?  Waaaaayyyy too late to the fitness/game party.  Wii Fit created the boom and Wii Fit Plus did some nasty profitteering off it (wasn't worth an additional purchase) and it's long over and done now.  And there's nothing new about Wii Fit U that will entice a revisit to it.   It should sell 3-5m, which is not bad, but won't be the system seller Wii Fit was. No chance.   Which leaves all of nothing for the Wii crowd.  Guess they'll be buying Angry Birds Star Wars and Disney Infinity this year on Wii cause there's still no reason to get a WiiU.

Which brings me to your leap in logic.  Why is anyone, consumer or 3rd party developer suddenly going to jump on WiiU?  You seem to have no basis for this conclusion.   Yes, the AAA game AND the mobile game scenes are all on unsteady ground, but no ground is being rocked harder and is more risky than Nintendo's.  WiiU is a big a risk as you can make as a developer.  It's got no userbase and the userbase it does have will probably never buy your game anyway.  With Wii, it was easy to sell games, the user base was huge, and still some struggled.  WiiU? How is that appealing to anyone?  We'd need to see a complete and utter collapse of Sony/MS AND mobile before WiiU becomes the go-to strategy.  So how exactly you leap to that logic is baffling.   

Nintendo needs to reconnect with non-Nintendo faithful. FAST!  And so far, I'm seeing nothing on WiiU that will accomplish that.  They need to get back on their BLue Ocean strategy and start making games that people (not Nintendo fanboys) want to play.  They need to become an enticing and PROFITABLE option to 3rd party and independant developers.  And they need to do it yesterday, because 2015 is too late to save WiiU.

Thanks for the props, Gamerace. I miss talking it up in these forums too.
Let me address your arguments piece by piece...and hopefully as brief as I can (is that possible?).

I am VERY convinced that the PS4 & XOne are gonna hit the wall HARD in the near future.
I'm trying to look for graphical comparison shots of late edition PS3/360 games to compare to similar counterparts on PS4/XOne games.
Like say PS3's Killzone 3 vs. PS4's Killzone: Shadow Fall & 360's Forza Motorpsort 4 vs. One's Forza Motorsport 5.
Or even better Battlefield 4 on PS3/360 vs. Battlefield 4 on PS4/One.
It's hard to find enough player commentary on this subject but from what I read there's a growing sentiment that there's not much difference between the graphics.
I think if that sentiment is strong enough among players that it will be FATAL to the futures of those platforms.
Especially compounded with the fact that neither console hosts backwards compatibility with their disc libraries & the price is restrictive on both.

Should that happen daggone RIGHT the AAA game mentality will be hard to maintain. They spend even MORE trying to get out a picture display that really isn't very much over what was done on the last consoles.
I see players sticking longer with their 360s & PS3s which they have invested so much of themselves into & have become cheaper over time.
Being in the shadows of THESE old consoles when you're supposed to be the next big thing??

Now of course there are still good 3rd party titles out there. I'm not saying they don't have output. The problem is why won't they share?
The problem is why do they deny Nintendo these choice titles time & time again? For no good reason?
Everytime they deny Nintendo it forces Nintendo to draw from their internal well & push their 1st party even stronger resulting in games like New Super Mario Bros. U.
It's pretty similar to New Super Mario Bros. Wii EXCEPT for the addition of the 5th player who can participate in the game indirectly.
And don't forget baby balloon Yoshis!
However, as for new experiences did Nintendoland have NO effect on you at ALL?? I saw so many gameplay possibilities out of that game!
And Game & Wario. The camera game within it could start up a whole new detective genre on the system. Maybe a game where you play a paparazzi.
Hell, that game with 9-Volt where you have to play a WarioWare style game on the Gamepad while watching the TV screen to hide his gameplay from his mother.
THAT WAS BRILLIANT!!
You may be just a little hasty with that statement in my opinion.

Nintendoland nor Game & Wario could exactly have been done on the Wii. I totally disagree with that.
Listen I was once just like you. I was disgusted at Nintendo when I thought they had abandoned The Revolution before it was finished.
I thought they should have pushed harder with Wii in 2011 & was knocked off my blocks when they cut out to make the Wii U.
But I had that epiphany, that revelation that let me know Nintendo is still fighting The Revolution just with a different vehicle.
They could been like a stubborn Taurus & kept driving the Wii over the 360 & PS3. Probably coulda kept racking up expectation defying sales over them in the process. Easy money.
But they HATED that Wii got pigeonholed as the "Casual Console". That was not their intention for Wii.
EVERYBODY'S Console was the goal. Look at those initial Wii promos & commercials from 7 & 8 years ago.
They didn't want easy sales victories over the PS3 & 360 anymore. They had already conquered those systems. It was time to look to the future.
They had a new plan to correct what went wrong with the perception of the Wii while retaining what they gained from Wii.

THAT'S why they have unprecedented backwards compatibility with this system. Controllers, accessories & all.
The Mii Parade from the Mii Channel has evolved into Warawara Plaza & Miiverse.
Wii U is more of a socially-connected console than Wii was. It's viral & is built to maximize the power of word-of-mouth.
That will help game sales for all kinds of titles, that will create a large stronger Nintendo base to draw from, that will protect against the negative propaganda heard from in the gaming & mainstream press.

It's harder to see from the outside in than Wii was. Wii's swinging Wiimotes showed you from afar what the system could be about.
Wii U on the other hand has to be touched & experienced directly to understand.
Even with my epiphany I didn't fully grasp the power until I actually played the system.
Reggie Fils-Aime already told you at E3 2006, "...is no longer just about looks, it's about the feel."
The graphics aren't gonna improve much more over 7th gen, the point I made about PS4 & XOne's coming wall.
You WON'T understand just from looking on the outside & that is Wii U's hurdle.
Not an insurmountable one though & as soon as word-of-mouth catches on with this system it will be a runaway train.
Slow acceleration, high top speed.

As for Nintendo fans buying only Nintendo games...
Tell me, would you call me your typical hardcore Nintendo fan? Yes, right?
Well, I bought PLENTY of 3rd party games on Wii last generation including Zack & Wiki, Okami, Elebits, Dewy's Adventure, the Trauma Center series, DragonBall Z Budokai Tenkaichi 2 & 3, Boom Blox & Boom Blox: Bash Party, ALL of those LEGO-brand movie franchise games, Blast Works, Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, No More Heroes & No More Heroes: Desperate Struggle, Red Steel 2, Madworld, The Godfather: Blackhand Edition, Bully: Scholarship Edition, Pinball Hall of Fame: The Williams Collection, Harvey Birdman: Attorney At Law, Cooking Mama: Cook Off & Cooking Mama: World Kitchen, Harvest Moon: Tree of Tranquility among others.

People will buy it if it's prominent on shelves (blame retailers for a lot of this) & if the game appeals to enough people.
Carnival Games had appeal because who really had a game set in a carnival atmosphere on the market.
The Just Dance series appealed because it took all the stodginess & stuffiness away to make it a silly social dance-a-thon. Nobody was doing that before quite like that.
Suda51's titles are so out there to begin with his appeal is narrower (strong but narrow) but No More Heroes sold BEST on Wii.
In fact it's his best-selling game to date! He went gold with over 500,000 sold!
Maybe he should have brought Shadows of the Damned over to the Wii he might have gotten more sales.
Yes, I TOO am frustrated when a great game idea gets lost in the shuffle. THAT'S what Wii U's community centric design can alleviate.
Nintendo promotes from outside, the Miiverse promotes from inside. And less games will lost in the shuffle because of it.

Kill that term please. There is no such thing as a "casual gamer" or a "hardcore gamer".
Everybody starts as a newbie, as a greenhorn. We didn't all have game history locked in our brains at first.
We didn't all buy games as part of a gamer's lifestyle at first. We all had to start somewhere.
NEVER say that the people who bought Wii would not buy a series continuously.
If the sequel added enough unique & different, they'll buy it. That's how Just Dance worked, remember?
Check the sales on Wii's Tiger Woods PGA Tour. The 2009 & 2010 versions outsold the 2008 version. Which all outsold the 2007 version.
In fact Wii's Tiger Woods of 2008-2010 were the 5th (2009), 6th (2010), 7th (2008) best-selling Tiger Woods games of all time.
These Wii versions sell a lot better than the current Tiger Woods on the 360 & PS3.
Seemed to be the so-called hardcore who didn't come with repeat business. They talk a big game but never follow through.

Don't be surprised at Nintendo bringing you their familiar franchises. They do it every generation & they're SUPPOSED to do it.
Generally they release one iteration of a franchise per generation, sometimes two. They space 'em out & you know that.
Mario has many sub-franchises so that's why you see him so much. Paper Mario, Mario Party, Mario Kart, 2D Mario, 3D Mario, & so on.
But while you gripe at that, don't forget about The Wonderful 101 which is totally brand new.
If good gaming's on mobile, that's excellent. But that doesn't mean the consoles don't provide fresh experiences.
And you know Nintendo usually ALWAYS does something unique to their franchises every iteration.
For instance, Super Mario 3D World is the first time we ever had multiplayer in a 3D Mario game, SIMULTANEOUS multiplayer at that.
That's new. Everything they accomplished on Super Mario 3D Land with making 3D Mario as accessible as 2D Mario...
...THEN adding simultaneous multiplayer to the mix!! Come on now! Can't tell me you're not excited about that.

I will give you one point that Nintendo's game pricing is steep. I'm not too much in favor of the rise either & I think it's an unnecessary weak point.
For the sake of retail I don't think Nintendo should start going $10 & under for their games but some compromise has to be reached.
I could deal with $30 to $35 for home console games maybe $40 & $15 to $20 for handheld console games maybe $25.
But despite going up it's not seeming to stop Nintendo especially on the 3DS front. Just LOOK at Animal Crossing: New Leaf!!

No the mobile games market won't die entirely just like the old PC games market didn't die entirely.
But it won't be that oasis for revenue everybody's expecting it to be.
Here's the thing. By default EVERY developer is a 3rd party developer on the smartphones & tablets. They don't control the design or manufacturing of the devices so they'll always be trying to fit what the fragmented phone market wants.
It's the Wild Wild West just like it was on the old desktop PCs. Lots of freedom but little unifying structure.
Because they can't control the machines they make games on they're pretty much in the same boat as the 3rd parties on current Sony & Microsoft.
Little real innovation on the interface which demands a rigid adherence to a type of control input.
That's why the PlayStation controller has barely changed in the past 20 years & why the XBox One controller looks just like the XBox 360 controller.
Outside of your very talented developers, most of the bunch will make games that play too similar & this sameness will over time leave players disinterested.
The videogame business is one that depends on novelty & newness. Even the familiar must be readapted to keep fresh.
Similarities between Super Mario Bros. & Super Mario 64 but there's no way you could tell me those are the same thing over & over.

Pretty cool about Ouya's off-TV play. Too bad the console can't get arrested in this town. I haven't seen the system anywhere in my area.
They got crowded out of E3. Very devious whoever did that to them. I hope they find a retail outlet & get some sales.
However, they pretty much have what Sony has. A small screen on a controller. Doesn't quite match up to the UPad.
Samsung Galaxy 4...screen not as big as the UPad. And no buttons on the actual Galaxy. Not quite the same.
Wii U's Gamepad buttons make it simultaneously a controller as WELL as a console. Precision touchscreen, gyroscopes & other motion control components, WITH buttons that give it more versatile control possibilities.
Plus the fundamental problem with using your phone as a primary playing device is that what happens when an important call comes in. Smartphone gaming can never really replace a dedicated gaming device because of that simple fact. Games will always have to be smaller in scope on those devices based on its nature.

As for the 3rd parties & the mobile market. There's a difference between dabbling in the market & diving in headfirst.
Why bother making mobile gaming a part of console gaming if mobile gaming is superior to console gaming? Look at all that Candy Crush feedback!
Why are they not abandoning the consoles altogether & eliminating the retail middleman to sell directly to the public?
When EA is willing to put Madden on iPad EXCLUSIVELY, then I'll know they're serious.
You know the reason. Mobile gaming is seen as supplementary but not the bread & butter like console gaming is.
The 3rd parties are not ready to sell AAA games at $1, $2, & $5 price points. It's that simple.
That's why I know the 3rd parties really have nowhere to go when Wii U wrecks the dreams of the PS4 & the One.
They'll wade around in the water in flotation devices but they won't jump straight off the diving board.
Consoles still matter & the new PC environment will end up just like the old PC environment.
Good for those who make games for a hobby, good for those who want to test an idea in the wide-open PC space, but bad for those who want to make serious money for their efforts.
Only a few of the old PC developers like Maxis & Blizzard can remain viable purely in the PC space.
Most of the old PC guys have already moved onto consoles for the majority of their business. They would go homeless if they tried to sell purely on PC.

DSi & 3DS have apps too. I mentioned a host of them in a reply to another poster on this thread.
But Nintendo is ALWAYS game-centered at the end of the day. They're here to sell games first & foremost. Not movies. Not random apps.
They'll use those things to entice players to use their system but it's not their focus.
That's why Wii didn't have DVD playback which it was actually capable of if modded.
Same with Wii U not using DVD playback. Nintendo gets no money selling somebody else's movies.
3DS can never compare to a smartphone as an app device. Not its intention.
But at the same time smartphones can never compare to the 3DS as a game device.

Those Wii owners who didn't know about Virtual Console & WiiWare must not be the curious type or they never connected the system to the internet (How do you miss the Wii Shop Channel really?).
Wii U fixes that potential oversight in the Warawara Plaza as console features are front & center in your face on the TV screen/Gamepad. All those Miis in your face grabbing your attention.
The eShop does a better job than the Wii Shop & DSi Shop in showcasing what's all available on the service.
Wii U IS a Wii with a Gamepad. That's EXACTLY what it is. It's Wii Part 2 like I said in the initial post of this thread.
It's doing everything Wii did but MORE to strike at all competition & unify the gaming audience under them.
They made a better Wii that won't get blocked by the 3rd party standoff, that won't be played by the tablet market.

I have no problem with the name. I think it was the right choice to signal the continuation of The Revolution.
This happens every generation. Probably the same happened to the PS2 with people wanting to play those games on the PS1.
Tell them that the older system can't play the newer system's games but that the newer system CAN play the older system's games. Simple.
What I want Nintendo to do more of is emphasize how everything you bought for the Wii works on the Wii U. Controllers & all.
That's the oversight that can bring more players to Wii U. No need to go into heavy investment with a new pack of controllers & accessories.
It's FULLY backwards compatible in ways not ever seen before.

Like I told you earlier. Graphics don't go much further than this. You're not gonna SEE the difference. You have to FEEL the difference by playing the system.
They started this fitness party & they will be successful again now that they crossed the very overlooked Personal Trainer: Walking's pedometer with the Wii Fit Balance Board. I have been using Personal Trainer: Walking for 3 years now & this was an intelligent development of the pedometer.
They're gonna need new Wiimotes because of all the extra sales they are destined to have.
Wii Party U is only the second game in that series. It will sell big ESPECIALLY with what the Gamepad can add to the series. ESPECIALLY in Japan.
They're retaining the old audience while making sure the audience who refuses them will soon join the gathering.
You watch & see.

Why will the customers suddenly jump to Wii U? Because word-of-mouth will reach a critical point & they'll be curious to see what the fuss is all about.
Each one that joins this Miiverse opens the door to many others who will join. Wii U starts slow but will run faster in the end than Wii did.
Why will the 3rd party developer suddenly jump to Wii U? Because when Microsoft & Sony hit that wall & prospects get slim, the 3rd party will need to stay alive.
They will be humbled into rejoining Nintendo this gen. They will not have the mobile market to escape to.
It will take time but it will happen this gen. Nintendo will break the standoff once & for all.
Complete & utter collapse. NOW you understand me! That's EXACTLY what's gonna happen.

And don't worry about 2015. They'll have that 60 million by that time.
John Lucas

I'm tagging cause I've only read the OP and have to go and I sure as hell don't wanna miss this thread :D Pure epicness!