By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - PC Discussion - Carzy Zarx’s PC Gaming Emporium - Catch Up on All the Latest PC Gaming Related News

Chazore on 02 December 2015
Conina said:
In Germany (and some other European countries) the OEM versions have no hardware restrictions: http://www.computerbase.de/2015-05/windows-10-informationen-preis-release/#abschnitt_hardwarebindung_von_oemlizenzen

Speaking of which my OEM hasn't for the past 2 years.



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

Around the Network
fatslob-:O on 02 December 2015
JEMC said:

 

@fatslob: And why is that?

I got all the parts and I'll be doing a major overhaul on my PC tonight ... 

I won't have a graphics card until next year so for now I'm lower than the so called "console peasant" despite spending a lot more and being "PC Master Race" myself ... (Integrated all the way and I hope PCSX2 will hold me until next year.) 

On a side note I'm very interested in getting my hands on the Acer XR341CK or something similar but It doesn't look like my wallet will handle it ... (Sooner or later I'll be joining the curved 21:9 with adaptive-sync display master race too.)

I also won't expecting a whole lot of improvements when it comes to perf/$ on GPUs since price per transistor will be higher on the newer nodes compared to 28nm ...



Chazore on 02 December 2015
JEMC said:

@Conina: That's great for you. Here in Spain it doesn't work that way .

@fatslob: And why is that?

 

Anyway guys, if we're going to do this before Christmas, we'll have to start making decisions:

  • How many PCs do we build: 1, 2 or 3?
  • What budgets do we settle for?
  • I think we all agree that an OS and keyboard & mouse must be included. But, do we add a controller as Bofferbrauer has proposed? And what about monitors?

And the most important one:

  • How do we do it?

 

Personally I think that a controller is a good idea if we find one that we all like. About a monitor, I wouldn't do it because we would have to increase the budget and because I'm not sure we would agree on three monitors (there's size, resolution, planel type, brand, etc.).

On how we do it, what about this: once everything is decided (how many PCs we do, what they must have and the budgets), we choose one budget and give us two or three days to look for parts and then we post the builds we've come with. Then we discuss what we like or dislike about them until we come with a single configuration. And once that's done, we move to the next one.

Sounds like a plan.



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

JEMC on 02 December 2015
fatslob-:O said:
JEMC said:

 

@fatslob: And why is that?

I got all the parts and I'll be doing a major overhaul on my PC tonight ... 

I won't have a graphics card until next year so for now I'm lower than the so called "console peasant" despite spending a lot more and being "PC Master Race" myself ... (Integrated all the way and I hope PCSX2 will hold me until next year.) 

On a side note I'm very interested in getting my hands on the Acer XR341CK or something similar but It doesn't look like my wallet will handle it ... (Sooner or later I'll be joining the curved 21:9 with adaptive-sync display master race too.)

I also won't expecting a whole lot of improvements when it comes to perf/$ on GPUs since price per transistor will be higher on the newer nodes compared to 28nm ...

Oh! New stuff is always exciting.

And that monitor is quite a beast. I also love the 34" 1440p monitors (I've looked at LG and Dell's offerings), but they are too big for me. But unless I'm mistaken A-Sync doesn't work with current Nvidia cards, is that the reason you're waiting to get a new card?.

About the price of the next cards, I wouldn't be so negative. The jump to 28nm with the 7970 and 680 was surprisingly affordable compared to the 6970/580. Also, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of the 480X / 1070 being able to offer the performance of today's high end cards at $400.

 

@Chazore: Good! Now we need to know what the others think.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

fatslob-:O on 02 December 2015
JEMC said:

Oh! New stuff is always exciting.

And that monitor is quite a beast. I also love the 34" 1440p monitors (I've looked at LG and Dell's offerings), but they are too big for me. But unless I'm mistaken A-Sync doesn't work with current Nvidia cards, is that the reason you're waiting to get a new card?.

About the price of the next cards, I wouldn't be so negative. The jump to 28nm with the 7970 and 680 was surprisingly affordable compared to the 6970/580. Also, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of the 480X / 1070 being able to offer the performance of today's high end cards at $400.

I didn't have an Nvidia GPU, I just sold/gave away my old graphics card in anticipation of next gen despite having a negative outlook ... 

28nm still gave us cost savings because we didn't have deal with multiple patterning or the increasing masking costs but for 20nm and beyond that doesn't look to be the case anymore ... 

@Bold I would suggest lowering your expectations so that the disappointment won't hit you as hard since not even Intel has figured out how to lower the cost of their 14nm node!



Around the Network
Bofferbrauer on 02 December 2015
JEMC said:

Anyway guys, if we're going to do this before Christmas, we'll have to start making decisions:

  • How many PCs do we build: 1, 2 or 3?
  • What budgets do we settle for?
  • I think we all agree that an OS and keyboard & mouse must be included. But, do we add a controller as Bofferbrauer has proposed? And what about monitors?

And the most important one:

  • How do we do it?

 

Personally I think that a controller is a good idea if we find one that we all like. About a monitor, I wouldn't do it because we would have to increase the budget and because I'm not sure we would agree on three monitors (there's size, resolution, planel type, brand, etc.).

On how we do it, what about this: once everything is decided (how many PCs we do, what they must have and the budgets), we choose one budget and give us two or three days to look for parts and then we post the builds we've come with. Then we discuss what we like or dislike about them until we come with a single configuration. And once that's done, we move to the next one.

I'd say 3 PCs. A low-cost basic one at +- console power for around 600€/$, a more developed one for 800-1000€/$ and a good gaming rig for 1000-1200€/$

I also wouldn't add a monitor, for several reasons: first, if you already got one, you may want to reuse it, second, if you want to use the PC as a HTPC, you'll use your TV screen anyway, and third, because finding a concensus there is almost impossible. Also, it might spark some "add the price of your TV to the price of your console" type of flaming discussion, which by all means I prefer to avoid.

As for the controller, most PC games where you can use a controller are mapped to a 360 controller (even down to showing the colors of the ABXY buttons) @as far as I know. So I think that would be the standard unless we find a good third party one with a similar layout. A controller however, is not a must on PC, but again, it was more to avoid potential flamewars who will claim "X plays better with a controler, so it needs one". I suggest making the controller optional and could be used to fill some headroom in the budgets.

About Windows, is a Systembuilder license OEM or not?



JEMC on 02 December 2015
fatslob-:O said:
JEMC said:

Oh! New stuff is always exciting.

And that monitor is quite a beast. I also love the 34" 1440p monitors (I've looked at LG and Dell's offerings), but they are too big for me. But unless I'm mistaken A-Sync doesn't work with current Nvidia cards, is that the reason you're waiting to get a new card?.

About the price of the next cards, I wouldn't be so negative. The jump to 28nm with the 7970 and 680 was surprisingly affordable compared to the 6970/580. Also, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of the 480X / 1070 being able to offer the performance of today's high end cards at $400.

I didn't have an Nvidia GPU, I just sold/gave away my old graphics card in anticipation of next gen despite having a negative outlook ... 

28nm still gave us cost savings because we didn't have deal with multiple patterning or the increasing masking costs but for 20nm and beyond that doesn't look to be the case anymore ... 

@Bold I would suggest lowering your expectations so that the disappointment won't hit you as hard since not even Intel has figured out how to lower the cost of their 14nm node!

I don't think that my expectations are too high.

When the first 28nm debuted, the 7950/7970 were <370mm2 chip and the 670/680 were <300mm2, and now both FuryX and 980Ti are twice as big, being 600mm2. With the move to 16nm I expect the first bunch of cards to be around 300mm2 again, so while the transistors will be more expensive there will also be less of them.

Besides, there's no way in hell that 480X/1070 won't outperform or at least come close to today's high end cards, and I also find it very hard to believe that neither AMD or Nvidia will launch them for more than $400.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

JEMC on 02 December 2015
Bofferbrauer said:
JEMC said:

Anyway guys, if we're going to do this before Christmas, we'll have to start making decisions:

  • How many PCs do we build: 1, 2 or 3?
  • What budgets do we settle for?
  • I think we all agree that an OS and keyboard & mouse must be included. But, do we add a controller as Bofferbrauer has proposed? And what about monitors?

And the most important one:

  • How do we do it?

 

Personally I think that a controller is a good idea if we find one that we all like. About a monitor, I wouldn't do it because we would have to increase the budget and because I'm not sure we would agree on three monitors (there's size, resolution, planel type, brand, etc.).

On how we do it, what about this: once everything is decided (how many PCs we do, what they must have and the budgets), we choose one budget and give us two or three days to look for parts and then we post the builds we've come with. Then we discuss what we like or dislike about them until we come with a single configuration. And once that's done, we move to the next one.

I'd say 3 PCs. A low-cost basic one at +- console power for around 600€/$, a more developed one for 800-1000€/$ and a good gaming rig for 1000-1200€/$

I also wouldn't add a monitor, for several reasons: first, if you already got one, you may want to reuse it, second, if you want to use the PC as a HTPC, you'll use your TV screen anyway, and third, because finding a concensus there is almost impossible. Also, it might spark some "add the price of your TV to the price of your console" type of flaming discussion, which by all means I prefer to avoid.

As for the controller, most PC games where you can use a controller are mapped to a 360 controller (even down to showing the colors of the ABXY buttons) @as far as I know. So I think that would be the standard unless we find a good third party one with a similar layout. A controller however, is not a must on PC, but again, it was more to avoid potential flamewars who will claim "X plays better with a controler, so it needs one". I suggest making the controller optional and could be used to fill some headroom in the budgets.

About Windows, is a Systembuilder license OEM or not?

Good points.

I agree with the 360 controller being our baseline, probebly the wired one because it's cheaper (and in the low end build every penny will count).

Yes, a Systembuilder license is OEM. The retail products come in pretty boxes .

 

@Basil: I wanted Shadow Complex on the 360 (played the demo and liked it) but it was the only digital game that I liked, so I didn't get it. That's why I hope it's true and comes to PC.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

fatslob-:O on 02 December 2015
JEMC said:

I don't think that my expectations are too high.

When the first 28nm debuted, the 7950/7970 were <370mm2 chip and the 670/680 were <300mm2, and now both FuryX and 980Ti are twice as big, being 600mm2. With the move to 16nm I expect the first bunch of cards to be around 300mm2 again, so while the transistors will be more expensive there will also be less of them.

Besides, there's no way in hell that 480X/1070 won't outperform or at least come close to today's high end cards, and I also find it very hard to believe that neither AMD or Nvidia will launch them for more than $400.

With the Fury X and 980 Ti, both Nvidia and AMD are really cutting in their margins ... 

A 16nm 300mm^2 chip should have roughly the same amount of transistors as a 28nm 600mm^2 chip assuming ideal 2x die space scaling. I expect savings to come from microarchitectures, not from process nodes at this point ...

I don't even know the 480X/1070 details yet to make an educated guess ...



Bofferbrauer on 02 December 2015
JEMC said:

Yes, a Systembuilder license is OEM. The retail products come in pretty boxes .

Well my Win7 Ultimate is a Systembuilder Version - which came in a pretty box. But it was cheaper than the Retail variant, thus my confusion and why I asked. And not being less confused now - yet.