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Forums - Microsoft - Microsoft defends the Xbox One’s licensing, used game policies

mii-gamer said:
scat398 said:
The disc truly is the horse and buggy whip of this generation and its time is quickly coming to an end. Microsoft is thinking two steps ahead of the competition right now.


what happens to the collectors. Will they be an endangered species?


They can collect something else...



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Somini said:
scat398 said:
The disc truly is the horse and buggy whip of this generation and its time is quickly coming to an end. Microsoft is thinking two steps ahead of the competition right now.


Thing is, if digital ever became the standard, or at least leading over physical, you'll see laws and regulations that will allow for reselling your digital content. We're not there yet, but in the EU for example, they are already busy establishing this.

So digital items; like games, music, movies and everything else will go second hand too in the not too distant future.


I can't see this happening. The whole purpose of used game market is that you have something physical which you can hand over to someone. From this is born a market where you can give someone something, but at a price, your own price. What your giving over is not new, therefore its value is percieved lower and thus its sold for a cheaper price then you will find elsewhere in the market. Retailers adopt this and make money from it. In a digital world, there is no such thing as second hand, or wear and tear. Every game is a new game, there is no longer a physical thransfering of property, there is no longer value depreciation. To be blunt there is no market for this.



BenVTrigger said:
Somini said:
BenVTrigger said:
Of course MS believes a digital world is better. It means higher profit margins and more control over the product. In terms of business the endgame goal for any console manufacturer is digital only. Look at Steam and iOS.

That doesn't mean it's good for the consumer and it will be a sad day when the disc dies.


Personally i think a digital world is also better. But what does that have to do with restricting games than are on discs? Can't they just try and make digital so appealing that people will want to get their game more and more digitally instead of on disc?


They could but they dont want to be labeled as a "download only" machine just yet. Ive commented on this before.

The main reason MS is introducing a DRM / always online console is because they view the X1 as the segway between the age of the disc and the digital only age. MS themselves are ready to embrace the digital model but they are keenly aware the consumer is not.

Thus they created the X1 to slowly conform people over to abandoning the disc. They fool the consumer into feeling like hes going out and buying physical media which hes used to but then implement features on the actual console that treat it like a digital only game. They are trying to slowly force people out of the habits that they are accustomed to with consoles instead of diving strait into digital only and alienating the consumer completly.

The X1 will be MS last console with physical media. They are training their consumer to embrace download only.


I agree, though I think Microsoft has it backwards.  Consumers tell companies where the industry is headed through their actions, not the other way around.  There will come a day where the digital sales for a new AAA title exceed that of the physical media version, but that's not today.  This philosophy makes too many assumptions about the level of broadband infrastructure in homes and that people are ready to abandon their physical media.

Look at the CD.  When iTunes came out, companies didn't stop making CDs.  They make more money if someone buys an entire album over a couple singles (the major flaw in my comparison, but you get why I'm making it), and consumers aren't ready to let go of CDs.  As CD sales slow, that section of retail stores gets smaller, and eventually disappears.  People are still buying CDs (myself included), and for a lot of different reasons.  Some people like feeling like they own something they've paid for, some like collecting and showing off their stash when friends come over.  I personally like to buy a CD and rip the MP3s off it, the CD serving as my legal backup copy, not tied to iTunes or any other service.

For games, I like owning the physical media.  There's an excitement with browsing games on the shelf, getting a new game from the store, that "new game smell", flipping through the instruction manual, admiring the box art, and amassing a collection that you can show off to your friends.  I'm a PlayStation Plus subscriber and I've filled up the hard drive on my main PS3 slim.  Does that mean I'm ready to give up physical media?  No.

A better path towards leading the consumer to all digital adoption may have been to offer digital copies of games for less than their physical counterparts.  With no manufacturing cost, they could offer games for $5 less, which could be attractive to some.  Sure, there's infrastructure required to support the digital download and it isn't free, but it's a negligible cost to facilitate a consumer-friendly transition to digital.  Would I still pay the $5 premium for my physical media?  I would, but they'd get a lot closer to their goal without pissing a bunch of people off.



BenVTrigger said:

Of course MS believes a digital world is better. It means higher profit margins and more control over the product. In terms of business the endgame goal for any console manufacturer is digital only. Look at Steam and iOS.

That doesn't mean it's good for the consumer however and it will be a sad day when the disc dies.


Yeah but I dont have to be always online on Steam and iOS and they dont block physical games.



Turkish said:
BenVTrigger said:

Of course MS believes a digital world is better. It means higher profit margins and more control over the product. In terms of business the endgame goal for any console manufacturer is digital only. Look at Steam and iOS.

That doesn't mean it's good for the consumer however and it will be a sad day when the disc dies.


Yeah but I dont have to be always online on Steam and iOS and they dont block physical games.

Indeed. And those are valid points.

But MS is positioning this console as the lead in to the digital age. Not to create a massive Hitler who wants to take your soul. The thing is most people who take the time to go on internet forums feel personally attatched to their consoles and believe companies owe them things. They dont.

MS isnt evil by any means by going this course and to claim they are is silly. Its simply a business model which they believe will lead to higher profit margins in the long run. That doesnt mean someone has to like it and when all is said and done people can vote with their wallets come November.

But this idea that MS is attacking people is strange. Its the business world ALL companies are out for the consumers dollar. They will find any way they can to grow their business. 



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They plan to "educate the customer" on why DRM is good? Good luck.



BinaryDelt said:
BenVTrigger said:
Somini said:
BenVTrigger said:
Of course MS believes a digital world is better. It means higher profit margins and more control over the product. In terms of business the endgame goal for any console manufacturer is digital only. Look at Steam and iOS.

That doesn't mean it's good for the consumer and it will be a sad day when the disc dies.


Personally i think a digital world is also better. But what does that have to do with restricting games than are on discs? Can't they just try and make digital so appealing that people will want to get their game more and more digitally instead of on disc?


They could but they dont want to be labeled as a "download only" machine just yet. Ive commented on this before.

The main reason MS is introducing a DRM / always online console is because they view the X1 as the segway between the age of the disc and the digital only age. MS themselves are ready to embrace the digital model but they are keenly aware the consumer is not.

Thus they created the X1 to slowly conform people over to abandoning the disc. They fool the consumer into feeling like hes going out and buying physical media which hes used to but then implement features on the actual console that treat it like a digital only game. They are trying to slowly force people out of the habits that they are accustomed to with consoles instead of diving strait into digital only and alienating the consumer completly.

The X1 will be MS last console with physical media. They are training their consumer to embrace download only.


I agree, though I think Microsoft has it backwards.  Consumers tell companies where the industry is headed through their actions, not the other way around.  There will come a day where the digital sales for a new AAA title exceed that of the physical media version, but that's not today.  This philosophy makes too many assumptions about the level of broadband infrastructure in homes and that people are ready to abandon their physical media.

Look at the CD.  When iTunes came out, companies didn't stop making CDs.  They make more money if someone buys an entire album over a couple singles (the major flaw in my comparison, but you get why I'm making it), and consumers aren't ready to let go of CDs.  As CD sales slow, that section of retail stores gets smaller, and eventually disappears.  People are still buying CDs (myself included), and for a lot of different reasons.  Some people like feeling like they own something they've paid for, some like collecting and showing off their stash when friends come over.  I personally like to buy a CD and rip the MP3s off it, the CD serving as my legal backup copy, not tied to iTunes or any other service.

For games, I like owning the physical media.  There's an excitement with browsing games on the shelf, getting a new game from the store, that "new game smell", flipping through the instruction manual, admiring the box art, and amassing a collection that you can show off to your friends.  I'm a PlayStation Plus subscriber and I've filled up the hard drive on my main PS3 slim.  Does that mean I'm ready to give up physical media?  No.

A better path towards leading the consumer to all digital adoption may have been to offer digital copies of games for less than their physical counterparts.  With no manufacturing cost, they could offer games for $5 less, which could be attractive to some.  Sure, there's infrastructure required to support the digital download and it isn't free, but it's a negligible cost to facilitate a consumer-friendly transition to digital.  Would I still pay the $5 premium for my physical media?  I would, but they'd get a lot closer to their goal without pissing a bunch of people off.


Solid post and you make some excellent points.

The onky thing Ill really comment on though is the idea the consumer tells the business world what direction to go. This isnt always true especially when business models start adapting to long term goals and ideas. Usualky the infrasctructure is designed far before full scale implementation in order to be "future proof" and often times products are designed to move consumers towards the companies end goal.

In the case of the gaming industry the end goal is digital only. Sony is also slowly trying to move people this direction. The free games and discounts on digital games PS Plus offers is a prime example. They are getting people used to the idea of downloading full sized games.



Somini said:
BenVTrigger said:
Of course MS believes a digital world is better. It means higher profit margins and more control over the product. In terms of business the endgame goal for any console manufacturer is digital only. Look at Steam and iOS.

That doesn't mean it's good for the consumer and it will be a sad day when the disc dies.


Personally i think a digital world is also better. But what does that have to do with restricting games than are on discs? Can't they just try and make digital so appealing that people will want to get their game more and more digitally instead of on disc?


Exactly the same question I have. The Digital age is just around the corner, the industry is moving towards it. So why restrict the Physical Media when the majority of future sales is already going digital.

I think you can better position yourself with better all around content and without the restrictions.



Soleron said:
They plan to "educate the customer" on why DRM is good? Good luck.


That is indeed their goal. No idea if it will have any success or not but that is what the X1 is designed to do. There is already no rights with digital titles. When you download a game off iOS, Steam, or PSN / XBLA you cant resell it.  Its yet another obstacle in the way that the consumer isnt fully used to yet.

If MS can somehow convince the general consumer to get used to not being able to resell or lend physical media they will be less likely to fight them over digital rights of games. As I said MS is trying to train the consumer to embrace digital only model over the next 5 or so years. For better or for worse.



maximrace said:
Very good read, seems they will give steam like sales


when i see a full game with all DLC for $7.50 or less on M$ store, i will believe it. i highly doubt it will be anything like steam sales. not from experiences with them in the past.