Hi Guys,

This is actually my first offical contribution since joining VG Chartz. Its been puzzling me for some time that 2+ years into the life span of the Xbox 360, Microsoft nor its partner (ATI) have done any significant reduction on the GPU. The last bit of information that was made public stated that the CPU experienced the most significant  size reduction [90nm -> 65nm i stand corrected] whilst the GPU had a rather minor reduction [90nm -> 85nm or so]. My question is what gives?

IMO there has been ample time for the "normal" chipset reduction [90nm -> 65nm] on both processors however this is not the case. Is there some underlying factor that has/is hampering the process? I am aware there could be any number of factors that could be the cause but I this one caught my interest and I thought it might be good point for discussion.

What are your thoughts? Feel free to add your own theories to the tread.

GPUs are often produce on "half nodes" rather than the normal size reductions taken by CPUs. The current CPU pattern is 90nm->65nm->45nm. However, current PC graphics chips are being produced at 55nm and some older GPUs were done at 80nm. There is overlap and it wouldn't be strange at all to see a GPU at 65nm, but GPU manufacturing often takes it own path. There are a few reasons for it including cost (cheaper to re-tool facilities to produce 80nm rather than jump right to 65nm) and product life-span (GPUs change architecture more often than CPUs so they take smaller steps), but mostly it's just the way things are.

As for the 360 specifically. I have no idea what's taking them so long. A reduction to 80 or 85nm makes sense given the half node pattern of GPUs, but they should have been able to do that ages ago. The 65, and 55nm processes are both pretty mature so I have no idea why they aren't moving more quickly to one of these sizes. It might simply be a sign of MS's lack of experience producing hardware.

ATi make everyone's GPU's and no one's has decreased yet. It is really out of MS or anyone else's hands.

MS did say they expect the GPU die to shrink this year under the next X360 model "Jasper".

I can't find the article, but there were rumblings about this just after the Falcon shipped.

Isn't Jasper supposed to be out sometime around the next holiday season?

Well ATI makes the 360 GPU not everyone's. The PS3 uses an Nvidia GPU.

I thought this year was when they were supposed to shrink the GPU size down? (65nm) 

It's also a cost thing (and heat/reliability/etc). Could simply be that the CPU is more complicated and so has larger gains from a reduction.

These are extremes, but if one part costs $200, and another part costs $1, youwwant to put your resources in reducing the cost of the $200 part not the $1 part.

(The ratios are no where near that, but I am sure the CPU costs more than the GPU).

@ All
Good points i must admit I thought that at least by now they would have already shrunk the die significantly given the age, as well as the fact that ATI has more advanced GPUs on the market. I guess the process is more complicated.