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Forums - Sony Discussion - Inside the PlayStation 4 With Mark Cerny

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/191007/inside_the_playstation_4_with_mark_.php

Great article with main architect of PS4. Some interesting bits:

"One thing we could have done is drop it down to 128-bit bus, which would drop the bandwidth to 88 gigabytes per second, and then have eDRAM on chip to bring the performance back up again," said Cerny. While that solution initially looked appealing to the team due to its ease of manufacturability, it was abandoned thanks to the complexity it would add for developers. "We did not want to create some kind of puzzle that the development community would have to solve in order to create their games. And so we stayed true to the philosophy of unified memory."

....

The three "major modifications" Sony did to the architecture to support this vision are as follows, in Cerny's words:

  • "First, we added another bus to the GPU that allows it to read directly from system memory or write directly to system memory, bypassing its own L1 and L2 caches. As a result, if the data that's being passed back and forth between CPU and GPU is small, you don't have issues with synchronization between them anymore. And by small, I just mean small in next-gen terms. We can pass almost 20 gigabytes a second down that bus. That's not very small in today’s terms -- it’s larger than the PCIe on most PCs!

  • "Next, to support the case where you want to use the GPU L2 cache simultaneously for both graphics processing and asynchronous compute, we have added a bit in the tags of the cache lines, we call it the 'volatile' bit. You can then selectively mark all accesses by compute as 'volatile,' and when it's time for compute to read from system memory, it can invalidate, selectively, the lines it uses in the L2. When it comes time to write back the results, it can write back selectively the lines that it uses. This innovation allows compute to use the GPU L2 cache and perform the required operations without significantly impacting the graphics operations going on at the same time -- in other words, it radically reduces the overhead of running compute and graphics together on the GPU."

  • Thirdly, said Cerny, "The original AMD GCN architecture allowed for one source of graphics commands, and two sources of compute commands. For PS4, we’ve worked with AMD to increase the limit to 64 sources of compute commands -- the idea is if you have some asynchronous compute you want to perform, you put commands in one of these 64 queues, and then there are multiple levels of arbitration in the hardware to determine what runs, how it runs, and when it runs, alongside the graphics that's in the system."

"The reason so many sources of compute work are needed is that it isn’t just game systems that will be using compute -- middleware will have a need for compute as well. And the middleware requests for work on the GPU will need to be properly blended with game requests, and then finally properly prioritized relative to the graphics on a moment-by-moment basis."

....

"With graphics, the first bottleneck you’re likely to run into is memory bandwidth. Given that 10 or more textures per object will be standard in this generation, it’s very easy to run into that bottleneck," he said. "Quite a few phases of rendering become memory bound, and beyond shifting to lower bit-per-texel textures, there’s not a whole lot you can do. Our strategy has been simply to make sure that we were using GDDR5 for the system memory and therefore have a lot of bandwidth."

That's one down. "If you're not bottlenecked by memory, it's very possible -- if you have dense meshes in your objects -- to be bottlenecked on vertices. And you can try to ask your artists to use larger triangles, but as a practical matter, it's difficult to achieve that. It's quite common to be displaying graphics where much of what you see on the screen is triangles that are just a single pixel in size. In which case, yes, vertex bottlenecks can be large."

"There are a broad variety of techniques we've come up with to reduce the vertex bottlenecks, in some cases they are enhancements to the hardware," said Cerny. "The most interesting of those is that you can use compute as a frontend for your graphics."

This technique, he said, is "a mix of hardware, firmware inside of the GPU, and compiler technology. What happens is you take your vertex shader, and you compile it twice, once as a compute shader, once as a vertex shader. The compute shader does a triangle sieve -- it just does the position computations from the original vertex shader and sees if the triangle is backfaced, or the like. And it's generating, on the fly, a reduced set of triangles for the vertex shader to use. This compute shader and the vertex shader are very, very tightly linked inside of the hardware."




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It's very important that Cerny himself got into developing his own game for the platform, so he knows from the inside out all that it takes to harness its power and make it sing. I really appreciate they put this man in charge.



Ohhhhhhh Sony just get a high-end PC and added a lot of enhancements over it... AMD and Sony created a GPU specialized that didn't exists in PC market yet.

I'm sure the next AMD GPU for PC to arrive in 2014 will show a lot of new features presents in PS4 GPU.

And the part abou to use the eDRAM like the competitors was EPIC... snap.

Great article... I was expecting it since Gamasutra said to be writing it last week... Congrats do teh writer team.



I think the VGC PC tech guys need to read this article asap.



So the ps4 is gonna be more in the high end range than mid range like people expected or what? Idk anything about most of what he talked about.



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nnodley said:
So the ps4 is gonna be more in the high end range than mid range like people expected or what? Idk anything about most of what he talked about.

The GPU is more specialized for games than any current GPU in PC market.



So? People still want to compare PS4 to off the self parts?



I'm reading now the full article... my bolded comments.

"OS will automatically cache the Bluray games on HDD when the game is not requesting contact to the BD drive."
So now the cache is automatically... no need the developer to do that... nice.

"Suspend state can save the game progress by leaving the gddr5 ram pool powered while the APU is shut down"
So the GDDR5 will be in freeze state to run the game instantly after the power on... the game started from the same place you power off it... EPIC 



ethomaz said:
nnodley said:
So the ps4 is gonna be more in the high end range than mid range like people expected or what? Idk anything about most of what he talked about.

The GPU is more specialized for games than any current GPU in PC market.

Nice, can't wait to see the awesome looking games this pumps out in the next few years(in both gameplay and graphics).



ethomaz said:

I'm reading now the full article... my bolded comments.

"OS will automatically cache the Bluray games on HDD when the game is not requesting contact to the BD drive."
So now the cache is automatically... no need the developer to do that... nice.

"Suspend state can save the game progress by leaving the gddr5 ram pool powered while the APU is shut down"
So the GDDR5 will be in freeze state to run the game instantly after the power on... the game started from the same place you power off it... EPIC 

That all sounds awesome.  Hopefully they can elaborate on a lot of this stuff at E3 and TGS.