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Forums - Gaming - blah blah blah oops

HoloDust on 28 March 2013

Chunk, these are PS4's GPU specs for easier comparison with other AMD's GPUs (on Wiki for example)

1152:72:32 @800MHz part

GFLOPS: 1843.2
Texture Fillarate: 57.6GT/s
Pixel Fillrate: 25.5GT/s
Memory bandwidth: 176GB/s
Memory Clock: 1375 MHz (5500MHz effective)
Memory bus: 256bit

As for CPU, its performance should be somewhere around comparable quad core desktop AMD part with twice the clock (really can't search for all the comparison tables/tests now), which is not terribly good compared to modern CPUs from Intel, but not that terribly bad either.



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superchunk on 28 March 2013
Scoobes said:
I think you're getting things mixed up. The PS4 GPU has 18 Compute units, not texture units, right?

The HD7850 has 16 Compute units whilst the 7870 has 20 compute units. That puts the PS4 GPU in between the 7850 and the 7870, at least on this metric.

I think I do have wrong info in OP for Texture Units. Found a couple that said 18, thought it sounded odd. Been looking more into it and it should be a lot higher based on whichever architecture its actually based from.



ethomaz on 28 March 2013

VGLeaks, NeoGAF, Beyond3D, etc.

And the most important source Sony and AMD press release... it is clear "Based in Next Generation of Radeon Graphics"... GCNis old gen... 2011 tech.

The PS4 GPU have features listed in the GCN 2.0 document released by AMD... 8 ACEs, 8 queues pipilines, HSA (you need that for the shared memory and GCN didn't have), etc.



Netyaroze on 28 March 2013
superchunk said:

brought from other thread...

Netyaroze said:


Hmm. You are seriously mixing up things the stuff you posted in that link is misleading or even wrong.

7850 has 130 Watt BOARD POWER.

"AMD advertises the board power at 130W (7850) and 175W (7870), board power is different then the TDP. If you try and visualize the power control settings slider in the Catalyst center, then you'll realize that you can increase it 20% meaning at default the TDP is roughly 20% lower then AMD's 130W for the 7850 and 175W for the 7870."

So 20% from 130 Watt is 100 Watt TDP. Thats the stock TDP of the 7850.

The board allows you to go higher if you want to. So yes the7850 has a possible max TDP of 130 Watt. Meaning the Card is designed to cool the GPU if you run it at the max. Take the GPU redesign Card/Cooling and it maxes out at 200 Watt TDP.

Now the 7970m has usually not a TDP of 75 but 100 Watt. But It CAN Have a TDP of 75 Watt and what it actually has depends on the engineer designing the Notebook which is not AMD.

You are wondering right now why there are so many different numbers on the net, if you have googled it. 

Well see TDP is variable it depends on the clocks and the strength of the cooling system/power supply. If you "overclock" a 7970m to 1 GHZ the TDP will be 175 Watt and you will have a 7870 GHZ Edition in your Notebook.

See a Notebook clocks a certain chip higher or lower depending on the battery. If you have a huge strong one you can have the GPU running higher power.

Well a PS4 can use Powerlines so they will not use low power because it makes no sense. (Unless your name is Nintendo).

Low Power wafers are the ones with  30 Watt 10 Watt.

A Gefore Titan Can be considered a mobile GPU if you carry a backpack with Hydrogencells around.

Its really die size and Transistor count that determins how big a GPU is not TDP. And the PS4 GPU is bigger and can far exceed the power of a Desktop 7850.

Where does low Power begin for you ? Desktop ranges from 20 Watt (7350) to 375+ Watt (7990) max TDP. 

"The TDP is reference design TDP values from AMD. Different non-reference board designs from vendors may lead to slight variations in actual TDP."

The TDP tells people how much Temperature can be transported safely away without the GPU overheating. You can freeze a GPU to absolute Zero and make it a Superconductor and feed a it insane amounts of Watt. You can do it with a mobile GPU aswell as Desktop GPU. 

So low Power is determined on how much Power a certain chip gets and where do you think low power starts what are the criteria ?

You have no idea how much watts a PS4 GPU will need but I can tell you with 1.84 Tflop its highest end mobile TDP and Midrange Desktop TDP.

The GPU itself is bigger than a 7850 so please define how the PS4 GPU is low power, low cost, mobile GPU ? Is everything not high end low power to you ? Do you think PS4 can run on a Laptop battery ?

Hmm. Everything I've read always stated "max" TDP, which is what I was comparing.

As for "bigger" than and so forth... how do you know the PS4 GPU is bigger than 7850? What are you basing that on? AFAIK we don't have actual hardware to measure the size. OR are you just comparing TFLOPs or something?

My logic in this is pretty simple I think.

All AMD APUs have low-power solutions.
PS4 has a AMD APU that will also be a retial unit at some point.
PS4 APU is more than likely to have a low-power solution.
AMDs cards that are low-power that fit PS4s stated features is the 7970M.


Ah I see thats what you meant with other thread. Ok I can tell you why I know the PS4 GPU will be "bigger" in size than a 7850.

 

CUs are AMD Modules. A CU consists of the same amount of streaming cores every time also 4 TMUs per CU. Lets assume a CU has 125 Million Transistors.

18*125>16*125 

But obviously its never that simple. Both GPUs are 2.8 Billion Transistor Wafers. So the die size actually stays the same but one GPU is bigger in terms of working transistors. But since its an APU and has Sony Tech added the point is trrelevant. All you need to realize in a PS4 will be more transistors at work than in a 7850.

 

PS4 APU is not going to be in Desktops anytime soon. The reason why AMD hasn't brought any big APUs just small ones is the limited DDR3 bandwith. A bigger GPU would be wasted because the DDR3 Systemram is too slow to deliever fresh data for the GPU so it ends up doing nothing most of the time. This is why the AMD Desktop/Mobile APUs have 2-3 CUs and not 20-30 CUs.

 

PS4 APU will never have a low power solution @28nm. it makes no sense to use a 4 Billion transistor big Wafer and clock it at 60 mhz. Better use a 500 Million big one and clock it at 500mhz. Its cheaper.(Numbers are just random)

 

By what metric do you decide a 7970m is low power ? You mean mid range power. I can downclock a Titan and it will just consume 100 Watt.

 

Low Power are certain types of wafer that can not handle watts over a certain treshhold and break even with the best possible cooling because they are DESIGNED to work just with low power which makes them easy to shrink with higher yields. But the 7970m is not designed as low power GPU. Its simply a Desktop 7870 downclocked. That is the difference to other mobile GPUs.

 

Edit: Ok great to see I got my point across. Whats important to keep in mind consoles are highly optimized in hard and software it will be hard to compare it to a PC and in the end the results will be different in some points.