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Forums - Gaming - Anybody think 8 gb of GDDR5 is a mistake for PS4

Hynad on 12 March 2013
GamersAreTrash said:
JoeTheBro said:
GamersAreTrash said:
JoeTheBro said:
GamersAreTrash said:
JoeTheBro said:
At launch it is overkill. Even after the second wave of games it will be overkill. In 7 years though it could be the bottleneck. Sony doesn't want a repeat of this gen. I expect EVERY social feature in the 720 to be ported to PS4 now that it has so much extra ram.

The GPU doesn't even have enough power to utilize 8 GB.

Shared memory means it's shared between the CPU and GPU. Sure 1 GB or so will go to the OS but the CPU needs more then that. Pretty much everything in a game that isn't pixels is handled by the CPU. That takes a lot of ram. On the PS3 50% of the ram was for CPU operations and 50% was for GPU operations. If that same ratio carried over (unlikely), the GPU would only be using 4 GB.


The GPU is too weak to use up 4 GB. The max it'll be able to handle would be around 1.5 GB. That leaves us with a whopping 5.5 GB for CPU operations.

Considering you were confused about shared memory, I'd need a source for that stat.

Quote me where I was confused about shared memory.

Well, just the way that you emphasize the fact that the GPU won't use the whole of those 8GB of RAM is a good enough indication that you're a bit lost about what RAM can be used for.

I mean, seriously. No shit, Sherlock.



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UnknownFact on 12 March 2013

8GB of RAM is a better investment thinking of 7 years in the future than a slightly stronger GPU.

That's because the difference in RAM in 7 years will still be considerable while the difference in GPU will be negligible.

So... no, it's not a mistake. It was the best decision to make.



JoeTheBro on 12 March 2013
darkknightkryta said:
JoeTheBro said:
GamersAreTrash said:
JoeTheBro said:
GamersAreTrash said:
JoeTheBro said:
GamersAreTrash said:
JoeTheBro said:
At launch it is overkill. Even after the second wave of games it will be overkill. In 7 years though it could be the bottleneck. Sony doesn't want a repeat of this gen. I expect EVERY social feature in the 720 to be ported to PS4 now that it has so much extra ram.

The GPU doesn't even have enough power to utilize 8 GB.


This is shared memory... I thought you knew that?

Yes. 1 GB is going to be used for the OS.

What will you do with the other 7?

Shared memory means it's shared between the CPU and GPU. Sure 1 GB or so will go to the OS but the CPU needs more then that. Pretty much everything in a game that isn't pixels is handled by the CPU. That takes a lot of ram. On the PS3 50% of the ram was for CPU operations and 50% was for GPU operations. If that same ratio carried over (unlikely), the GPU would only be using 4 GB.


The GPU is too weak to use up 4 GB. The max it'll be able to handle would be around 1.5 GB. That leaves us with a whopping 5.5 GB for CPU operations.

Considering you were confused about shared memory, I'd need a source for that stat.

Or if you want really long loading screens :/

Why yes I do.



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ironmanDX on 12 March 2013
Andrespetmonkey said:
ironmanDX said:
Andrespetmonkey said:

The PSV components cost $160, yet it broke even at $250. So including all the other associated costs the PS4 should cost Sony about $500 each. 

They're buying in mass bulk. Wouldn't $450-475 be a bit more realistic? Even still, on top of shipping, advertising etc, that could indicate another $599 price.

475 is in the spectrum of "about $500" to me, but I think it'll be little more than that.

@bolded. Absolutely no way in hell. Shipping is a tiny cost and all the advertising in the world isn't going to sell a $599 console well, especially in today's economic climate. At 599 the price would be too high for most consumers -> crap consoles sales -> crap software sales -> tiny profits if any -> crap third party support - PS4 early grave -> Playstation's demise. That's the worst case scenario. Although PS3, which was a 599 console, would of actually been financially successful if not sold at a loss it'd still be last place, lost unbelievable marketshare and still wouldn't of been particularly profitable, and that was released when the Playstation brand was at it's height; it's now at it's lowest point ever. 


If it costs $500 to sell it at the same price would be a massive loss...One Sony just can not afford. A small loss they could but not a large one. It must cost a fortune to assemble millions of these things...

Do you think there will be more than one bundle? Say $450 and $499? Or $399-499 maybe?



Andrespetmonkey on 13 March 2013
ironmanDX said:
Andrespetmonkey said:
ironmanDX said:
Andrespetmonkey said:

The PSV components cost $160, yet it broke even at $250. So including all the other associated costs the PS4 should cost Sony about $500 each. 

They're buying in mass bulk. Wouldn't $450-475 be a bit more realistic? Even still, on top of shipping, advertising etc, that could indicate another $599 price.

475 is in the spectrum of "about $500" to me, but I think it'll be little more than that.

@bolded. Absolutely no way in hell. Shipping is a tiny cost and all the advertising in the world isn't going to sell a $599 console well, especially in today's economic climate. At 599 the price would be too high for most consumers -> crap consoles sales -> crap software sales -> tiny profits if any -> crap third party support - PS4 early grave -> Playstation's demise. That's the worst case scenario. Although PS3, which was a 599 console, would of actually been financially successful if not sold at a loss it'd still be last place, lost unbelievable marketshare and still wouldn't of been particularly profitable, and that was released when the Playstation brand was at it's height; it's now at it's lowest point ever. 


If it costs $500 to sell it at the same price would be a massive loss...One Sony just can not afford. A small loss they could but not a large one. It must cost a fortune to assemble millions of these things...

Do you think there will be more than one bundle? Say $450 and $499? Or $399-499 maybe?

If it costs $500 to manufacture and sells at two prices, $399 and $499, that would be a small loss. PS3 profits, PS4 software/services profits, and potentially even Vita profits could cover that, or at the very least make it bearable. 



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ironmanDX on 13 March 2013
Andrespetmonkey said:
ironmanDX said:


If it costs $500 to sell it at the same price would be a massive loss...One Sony just can not afford. A small loss they could but not a large one. It must cost a fortune to assemble millions of these things...

Do you think there will be more than one bundle? Say $450 and $499? Or $399-499 maybe?

If it costs $500 to manufacture and sells at two prices, $399 and $499, that would be a small loss. PS3 profits, PS4 software/services profits, and potentially even Vita profits could cover that, or at the very least make it bearable. 

If it costs $500ish in parts alone, selling for $499 is a moderate loss. $399 is a big one....

Manufacturing the console will cost millions and millions. The amount of money it would cost for the salaries and factories to run would be a lot. Especially if paying another company to do it! Shipping, as you have said, is minimal to a company like Sony. But Advertising, e3 and the ps4 reveal type things like the assembly of the console will cost millions too.

Is the Vita actually profiting? That would help Sony a lot if it is!!



GamersAreTrash on 13 March 2013
ironmanDX said:
Andrespetmonkey said:
ironmanDX said:
 


If it costs $500 to sell it at the same price would be a massive loss...One Sony just can not afford. A small loss they could but not a large one. It must cost a fortune to assemble millions of these things...

Do you think there will be more than one bundle? Say $450 and $499? Or $399-499 maybe?

If it costs $500 to manufacture and sells at two prices, $399 and $499, that would be a small loss. PS3 profits, PS4 software/services profits, and potentially even Vita profits could cover that, or at the very least make it bearable. 

If it costs $500ish in parts alone, selling for $499 is a moderate loss. $399 is a big one....

Manufacturing the console will cost millions and millions. The amount of money it would cost for the salaries and factories to run would be a lot. Especially if paying another company to do it! Shipping, as you have said, is minimal to a company like Sony. But Advertising, e3 and the ps4 reveal type things like the assembly of the console will cost millions too.

Is the Vita actually profiting? That would help Sony a lot if it is!!


Well, assuming Sony sells approximately 10 mill PS4 in the first year, that would be more than a $1 billion loss from just the hardware. The loss will probably be offset by software & accesory sales.  



adriane23 on 13 March 2013

In order to future proof their console, 8GB is just right, I think. Especially, for the multitasking demands the next gen will bring.



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ironmanDX on 14 March 2013
GamersAreTrash said:
ironmanDX said:
Andrespetmonkey said:
ironmanDX said:
 


If it costs $500 to sell it at the same price would be a massive loss...One Sony just can not afford. A small loss they could but not a large one. It must cost a fortune to assemble millions of these things...

Do you think there will be more than one bundle? Say $450 and $499? Or $399-499 maybe?

If it costs $500 to manufacture and sells at two prices, $399 and $499, that would be a small loss. PS3 profits, PS4 software/services profits, and potentially even Vita profits could cover that, or at the very least make it bearable. 

If it costs $500ish in parts alone, selling for $499 is a moderate loss. $399 is a big one....

Manufacturing the console will cost millions and millions. The amount of money it would cost for the salaries and factories to run would be a lot. Especially if paying another company to do it! Shipping, as you have said, is minimal to a company like Sony. But Advertising, e3 and the ps4 reveal type things like the assembly of the console will cost millions too.

Is the Vita actually profiting? That would help Sony a lot if it is!!


Well, assuming Sony sells approximately 10 mill PS4 in the first year, that would be more than a $1 billion loss from just the hardware. The loss will probably be offset by software & accesory sales.  


Not likely. It is the beginning of the gen, a 10 million install base isn't enough for them or anyone else. The offset from software and accessories wouldn't be enough. It could take years like the ps3 did.



richardhutnik on 14 March 2013
ninjablade said:

i'm not really sure but i keep hearing how expensive the ultra fast ram is, so i started thinking wouldn't it be cheaper if had they gone with a 2.5 gflops GPU and 4gb gddr5, wouldn't that make the system cheaper and give it better graphics, i just don't see how they could use the 8gb or even 4gb, the budget for the game would be insane.

Only 4GB of ram of any type means to not give the developers what they want.  The price will drop on the memory.  Better to pay the price early than later.

As of now Sony putting 8 GB of memory, along with likely Microsoft blocks Nintendo again from getting third party major releases.  From a competitive standpoint, this is good for Sony.  It is going to be a few years before things hit their groove anyhow for next gen, so the price should come down.