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Forums - Microsoft - Michael Pachter "Next Xbox Might Cost More Than PS4"

 

Which will be the more expensive one?

PS4 87 34.94%
 
Nextbox 60 24.10%
 
Wii U 6 2.41%
 
Gaming PC 68 27.31%
 
My iProduct 27 10.84%
 
Total:248
drkohler on 26 February 2013
superchunk said:

a) Kinect2 has FAR better cameras than kinect1.
b) Kinect2 has enhanced microphones.
c) Kinect2 has far better tech to allow up to 6 (not 2) registerable players.

d) There is no way it doesn't cost at least 2x more than the new PSeye which may have the same mic, but definitely doesn't have the same cameras or even the same number of cameras (2 vs 3) and additionaly none of the of the rest of the internal tech.

a) How do you know? The cameras have higher resolutions, that is all we know for sure

b) Not according to vgleaks, which is the only source for now for all the rumours

c) This has NOTHING to do with "tech", this is purely a software issue. Due to more processing power and higher resolution, they can track more players now.

d) How do you get 3 cameras? Here is the key quote from vgleaks: "As part of the process of producing the depth stream, the sensor uses an active IR stream."

If that is true, Kinect2 is ACTUALLY CHEAPER to manufacture than the original Kinect, because it does not contain a random speckle projector and the speckle processor. Actually we already knew that because PrimeSense is no longer part of the Kinect train. Somehow I doubt there is a real Z cam involved here.



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superchunk on 26 February 2013

To those who keep quoting me. stop. lol jk, here's a table to see it all laid out.

 Simply put which one is more expensive. ~ means they are similar, + or - means one is more or less than other and a comment along with.

Hardware nXBox PS4 Comments
CPU ~ ~ Essentially the same CPUs in an APU design.
GPU ~ ~ Yes, Sony GPU will be slight higher end, but MS is using embedded RAM and extra "Move" engines. In the end, this is likely to be about the same in terms of raw costs per component.
RAM - + Sony GDDR5 will cost more than the DDR3 RAM MS is using. http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/339471-33-6670-gddr5-ddr3 Here is a relatively recent comparison of the same card with different RAM types. There is only a $11 difference here.
HDD ~ ~ Overall the same.
PSU ~ ~ Overall the same.
Wifi ~ ~ Overall the same.
Ethernet ~ ~ Overall the same.
Bluray Drive ~ ~ Overall the same.
Other casing crap/mobo/etc ~ ~ Overall the same.
Controller - + While the basics are the same, Sony is adding things MS won't. Sony has a touchPAD. This is not a screen and thus not outrageous in price. Also adds an extra light (move intergration) and accelometers. This is likely less than $10 difference overall.
Camera Device + -

Here is the kicker. PSEye has been a $40 device since launch. Kinect has been a $150 device is recently a $100 device. Kinect has been AT LEAST 2x-3x the cost/price of PSEye.

PSEye in PS4 has a better camera and it has TWO of these cameras. That's it. No other major enhancements over existing setup. This gives it the ability to read depth and is all that Sony wanted to add to its Move system. This will likely be a $40 device again with a cost around $20-$25.

Kinect1 already has a cost higher than that. Kinect2 has far better cameras and internal components that allow it to go from seen two distinct stick figures to SIX DISTINCT FULL HUMAN FORMS INCLUDING FINGERS. That's  pretty significant upgrade and its not all software. I'm sure the cost of the system will increase from its ~$50 to $80 or so easily per unit.
Packaging/cords/etc ~ ~ Overall the same.
Total Estimation + - So It seems that PS4's areas of increased cost are around ~$30 and NXBox increases are closer to ~$50. So in the end NXBox could likely cost more to manufacturer that PS4. They are likely too close to matter and the prices for base units will be the same or only differ due to size of HDD and games packed-in.


JoeTheBro on 26 February 2013

Microsoft could price it lower, but why would they? If they are confident in the direction they are going then of course they will charge a premium and make even more money.



Links

Stinky on 26 February 2013

Will the PS4 end up with a quad-layer bluray, for 4K video?



D-Joe on 26 February 2013
superchunk said:

To those who keep quoting me. stop. lol jk, here's a table to see it all laid out.

 Simply put which one is more expensive. ~ means they are similar, + or - means one is more or less than other and a comment along with.

Hardware nXBox PS4 Comments
CPU ~ ~ Essentially the same CPUs in an APU design.
GPU ~ ~ Yes, Sony GPU will be slight higher end, but MS is using embedded RAM and extra "Move" engines. In the end, this is likely to be about the same in terms of raw costs per component.
RAM - + Sony GDDR5 will cost more than the DDR3 RAM MS is using. http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/339471-33-6670-gddr5-ddr3 Here is a relatively recent comparison of the same card with different RAM types. There is only a $11 difference here.
HDD ~ ~ Overall the same.
PSU ~ ~ Overall the same.
Wifi ~ ~ Overall the same.
Ethernet ~ ~ Overall the same.
Bluray Drive ~ ~ Overall the same.
Other casing crap/mobo/etc ~ ~ Overall the same.
Controller - + While the basics are the same, Sony is adding things MS won't. Sony has a touchPAD. This is not a screen and thus not outrageous in price. Also adds an extra light (move intergration) and accelometers. This is likely less than $10 difference overall.
Camera Device + -

Here is the kicker. PSEye has been a $40 device since launch. Kinect has been a $150 device is recently a $100 device. Kinect has been AT LEAST 2x-3x the cost/price of PSEye.

PSEye in PS4 has a better camera and it has TWO of these cameras. That's it. No other major enhancements over existing setup. This gives it the ability to read depth and is all that Sony wanted to add to its Move system. This will likely be a $40 device again with a cost around $20-$25.

Kinect1 already has a cost higher than that. Kinect2 has far better cameras and internal components that allow it to go from seen two distinct stick figures to SIX DISTINCT FULL HUMAN FORMS INCLUDING FINGERS. That's  pretty significant upgrade and its not all software. I'm sure the cost of the system will increase from its ~$50 to $80 or so easily per unit.
Packaging/cords/etc ~ ~ Overall the same.
Total Estimation + - So It seems that PS4's areas of increased cost are around ~$30 and NXBox increases are closer to ~$50. So in the end NXBox could likely cost more to manufacturer that PS4. They are likely too close to matter and the prices for base units will be the same or only differ due to size of HDD and games packed-in.

lol so wrong,first your link of 6670 DDR3/GDDR5 price difference was $16 not $11,second if 1GB DDR3/GDDR5 price difference is $16,how much will be 8GB DDR3/GDDR5 price difference?(even will kick out the GPU part)

Second your Kinect cost is a dream,you're not just ignore me,you even ignore drkohler's reply

Every single time you just ignore peoples reply,every single time you just think you're right and the other guys must be wrong from your eye

Every time.



http://zh-tw.justin.tv/johndoe1899

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spaceguy on 26 February 2013
D-Joe said:
superchunk said:

To those who keep quoting me. stop. lol jk, here's a table to see it all laid out.

 Simply put which one is more expensive. ~ means they are similar, + or - means one is more or less than other and a comment along with.

Hardware nXBox PS4 Comments
CPU ~ ~ Essentially the same CPUs in an APU design.
GPU ~ ~ Yes, Sony GPU will be slight higher end, but MS is using embedded RAM and extra "Move" engines. In the end, this is likely to be about the same in terms of raw costs per component.
RAM - + Sony GDDR5 will cost more than the DDR3 RAM MS is using. http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/339471-33-6670-gddr5-ddr3 Here is a relatively recent comparison of the same card with different RAM types. There is only a $11 difference here.
HDD ~ ~ Overall the same.
PSU ~ ~ Overall the same.
Wifi ~ ~ Overall the same.
Ethernet ~ ~ Overall the same.
Bluray Drive ~ ~ Overall the same.
Other casing crap/mobo/etc ~ ~ Overall the same.
Controller - + While the basics are the same, Sony is adding things MS won't. Sony has a touchPAD. This is not a screen and thus not outrageous in price. Also adds an extra light (move intergration) and accelometers. This is likely less than $10 difference overall.
Camera Device + -

Here is the kicker. PSEye has been a $40 device since launch. Kinect has been a $150 device is recently a $100 device. Kinect has been AT LEAST 2x-3x the cost/price of PSEye.

PSEye in PS4 has a better camera and it has TWO of these cameras. That's it. No other major enhancements over existing setup. This gives it the ability to read depth and is all that Sony wanted to add to its Move system. This will likely be a $40 device again with a cost around $20-$25.

Kinect1 already has a cost higher than that. Kinect2 has far better cameras and internal components that allow it to go from seen two distinct stick figures to SIX DISTINCT FULL HUMAN FORMS INCLUDING FINGERS. That's  pretty significant upgrade and its not all software. I'm sure the cost of the system will increase from its ~$50 to $80 or so easily per unit.
Packaging/cords/etc ~ ~ Overall the same.
Total Estimation + - So It seems that PS4's areas of increased cost are around ~$30 and NXBox increases are closer to ~$50. So in the end NXBox could likely cost more to manufacturer that PS4. They are likely too close to matter and the prices for base units will be the same or only differ due to size of HDD and games packed-in.

lol so wrong,first your link of 6670 DDR3/GDDR5 price difference was $16 not $11,second if 1GB DDR3/GDDR5 price difference is $16,how much will be 8GB DDR3/GDDR5 price difference?(even will kick out the GPU part)

Second your Kinect cost is a dream,you're not just ignore me,you even ignore drkohler's reply

Every single time you just ignore peoples reply,every single time you just think you're right and the other guys must be wrong from your eye

Every time.


Someone wants some attention from you.  Apparently he misses your arguments with him.



drkohler on 26 February 2013
superchunk said:

To those who keep quoting me. stop. lol jk, here's a table to see it all laid out.

I'm quoting you beacause, again, you make false assumptions about Kinect2. The tracking of more players and/or fingers is totally, absolutely, definitely ONLY a result of a lot more raw power (additional silicon in the SoC and more cpu power, NOT in the Kinect2 device) with much higher resolution (1920h pixels instead of 640h), it has nothing to do with magical Kinect2 hardware. Of course no game will track six players. Imagine a living room with six players side by side throwing arms and legs around. Even three rows of two people would be simpractical and very difficult to track. Without seeing an actual Kinect2, we can guess all we want and make beautiful tables, but at the moment (with what we know = no PrimeSense, very likely no true Z cam), I'd wager parallax software on a Kinect2 device that is considerably cheaper than the original Kinect device.



flagstaad on 27 February 2013
superchunk said:

To those who keep quoting me. stop. lol jk, here's a table to see it all laid out.

I think you made a very good comparison, but with a few clear mistakes...

RAM: the comparison given was for a card with 1GB of it, if that price difference (16 U$) is extrapolated to the actual amount of RAM, you will get that PS3 RAM is 128 dollars more expensive that Microsoft one. Lets assume that by scale and huge amount purchases the real cost difference is around 70-80 dollars.

Kinect: The cost of the original Kinect device (not the consumer price) during launch in 2010 was around 60 dollars, in 2013 sould be around 30-35 dollars, the new cameras have a higher resolution but all the extra power comes from a better software as the device is still tracking just skeletons only that those are now 25 joints instead of 20, so there is not a huge increase in the cost itself, lets be pessimistic and say is a 80 dollars device

Dualshock 4: You added the light, the touchpad and the accelometers. What about the headphone/microphone in front, and the headphone/microphone jack at the bottom?

Now do the math again....

Depending if the PS4 Eye is included or not, the difference can be between 0 and 25 against Sony.



HokageTenshi on 27 February 2013

probably cause of the new Kinect that comes with it... hardcore X360 fans is going to hate the new Kinect even more this time...



Darth Tigris on 27 February 2013

Wait ... why isn't Gaming PC leading the poll????