By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming - What makes a console "next-gen"...?

 

What makes a console "next-gen"...?

Significant power improvement 38 24.20%
 
Release date 17 10.83%
 
Successor to existing console 61 38.85%
 
Significant change in controller interface 0 0%
 
Mix of the above 39 24.84%
 
Total:155
Aielyn said:

First of all, the reason that consoles improve in power is because the power/cost ratio has a moving optimum. If you go below the optimum power point, the overhead costs begin to dominate, and the overall cost per unit of power grows. On the flipside, as you increase the power beyond the optimum, the cost increases faster than the power - that is, it costs more than twice as much to get double the power, for instance.

Think of it this way - it would probably cost more than $10 to manufacture a 1 GFLOP GPU now. Meanwhile, it might cost $50 to manufacture a 500 GFLOP GPU. If you wanted a 1500 GFLOP GPU, however, it would probably cost $200.

Add to this the consumer factor - consumers aren't going to want to spend $1000 on a games console, but on the flipside, they won't spend $50 on a games console that does what the one they already have does.

This is why the consoles improve in power. The fact that the PC is always ahead of consoles demonstrates that "keeping up" isn't even remotely a factor. And the fact that PC ownership doesn't soar in the years preceding a new generation also proves that gamers aren't driven by the latest hardware.

As for the PS2/GC/Xbox numbers, please don't pull numbers from nowhere. We actually have accurate numbers for the three. Here they are (copied from another thread, where I posted it once already):

Gamecube - 1.6 GFLOPS CPU, 9.4 GFLOPS GPU
Xbox - ~3 GFLOPS CPU, ~18.6 GFLOPS GPU
PS2 - 6.2 GFLOPS CPU, GPU isn't really a GPU (adds no computing power to the system)

So, here's the total for each system:

Gamecube - 11 GFLOPS
Xbox - 21.6 GFLOPS
PS2 - 6.2 GFLOPS

This means that the Xbox is more than three times the power of the PS2, and just under double the power of the Gamecube, based on raw numbers. If you factor in that the PS2 therefore didn't have any specialised Graphical operations (as all such operations were being done on the CPU), the PS2 was even weaker (see, for instance, Resident Evil 4 GC vs PS2, for demonstration of this fact).

The only way that the Gamecube came out ahead of the Xbox was due to non-power factors - things like the TEV (or whatever it was called) gave it the ability to do more with less. And this is why, most of the time, the Xbox did better. And there's absolutely no way that the Xbox was only about 30% more powerful than the PS2. It was, on raw numbers alone, a touch under 3.5x more powerful. More, when you factor in things like the presence of SDRAM, and the fact that the PS2 had no graphics logic.

Generations are defined by the dictionary - I suggest you look it up.

You are way overshooting both the GC and the XB GPUs.

First it seems like you are either counting the XB GPU as 8 pipelines, where it does have only 4, or you are placing an insane ammount of operations per second on each pipeline, very unlikely considering we know very well what's inside of each in those times of non-unified shaders. It wouldn't be able to come even close to a decent performance with its memory bandwidth if either were the case. Second even with the fixed-function hardware inside the Gamecube's GPU it wouldn't go beyond 8 gigaflops. So it's more like...

GC - 1.9 gigaflops CPU, 8 gigaflops GPU

XB - 2.9 gigaflops CPU, 11.1 gigaflops GPU

Meaning about twice the PS2 and perhaps four times the real performance of the Dreamcast. Four times, by the way, is about the same differene we're seeing between the Wii-U and Durango/Orbis specs. 



 

 

 

 

 

Around the Network
haxxiy said:
You are way overshooting both the GC and the XB GPUs.

First it seems like you are either counting the XB GPU as 8 pipelines, where it does have only 4, or you are placing an insane ammount of operations per second on each pipeline, very unlikely considering we know very well what's inside of each in those times of non-unified shaders. It wouldn't be able to come even close to a decent performance with its memory bandwidth if either were the case. Second even with the fixed-function hardware inside the Gamecube's GPU it wouldn't go beyond 8 gigaflops. So it's more like...

GC - 1.9 gigaflops CPU, 8 gigaflops GPU

XB - 2.9 gigaflops CPU, 11.1 gigaflops GPU

Meaning about twice the PS2 and perhaps four times the real performance of the Dreamcast. Four times, by the way, is about the same differene we're seeing between the Wii-U and Durango/Orbis specs.

The GC numbers come from Nintendo themselves, and have been verified. The Xbox numbers come from a book about the Xbox that is known to be accurate, wherein the total is given as 21.6 GFLOPS across the entire system. The 18.7 GFLOPS for the GPU, which includes pixel shaders (the other part, other than the 11.1 GFLOPS that you refer to), is calculated by subtracting off the 2.9 GFLOPS CPU from the total.



I wonder why the gameboy is considered a 4th generation console?

I mean, the Gameboy was relesed in 1989, at the time the Sega Megadrive was already released in Japan. That was a true next-gen system, you could really see a generation leap compared to previous systems like NES or the Atari 7800.

With the Gameboy Nintendo, rather than focusing on a serious next-gen system (hi-end tecnology), they just decided to play it easy and focus on heavy marketing and the portable gaming cheap novelty. If you look at specs, the Gameboy has much more in common with the NES in terms of performance rather than with Mega Drive, not to mention it was still a black and white console ( I mean, even 2nd generation consoles could achieve more than 2 colours!), in the end I think we could just barely call it a 3rd generation console.

Thankfully, Nintendo payed for its mistakes...Due to the fact Gameboy couldn't support next-gen tecnologies and middleware and so it couldn't recieve multiplatform games, the platform quickly became irrilevant. Nintendo was then forced to move up quickly, so they released the SNES only one year later.



sales2099 said:

A successor, regardless of specs.

Its like a father having a handicapped son....you wouldnt Not call the son the "next generation"? lol cmon


Well then how is the xbox part of the 6th gen as it's not a successor to anything?



KylieDog said:
ROBOTECHHEAVEN said:
the wii u is a next-gen system, because it does indeed do things that the other 2 current systems cant do. can either the xbox 360 or ps3 do co-op with each player having there own screen while playing black ops2 on the same console, besides the wii u. the answer is no...


The PS3 can do this with some games.

Hell Wii did this to a degree with DS connectivity - FF:CC:Echos of Time, Driver: San Francisco

Gamecube did it as well - Pac-man Vs.



 

Around the Network
Mazty said:
sales2099 said:

A successor, regardless of specs.

Its like a father having a handicapped son....you wouldnt Not call the son the "next generation"? lol cmon


Well then how is the xbox part of the 6th gen as it's not a successor to anything?

Gotta start somewhere. But thats a creationism vs evolution debate.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Considerable Graphical/Innovative/Computational leap over existing architecture. Preferably all three.



sales2099 said:
Mazty said:
sales2099 said:

A successor, regardless of specs.

Its like a father having a handicapped son....you wouldnt Not call the son the "next generation"? lol cmon


Well then how is the xbox part of the 6th gen as it's not a successor to anything?

Gotta start somewhere. But thats a creationism vs evolution debate.

Lolwut.

Creationism - unfounded religious belief.
Evolution - scientific fact

Not quite sure what your anaolgy has to do with defining console generation. Regardless, your definition doesn't work as it doesn't take into account brand new consoles meaning that from the get go, it's a flawed system.



dsgrue3 said:
Considerable Graphical/Innovative/Computational leap over existing architecture. Preferably all three.

Short & to the point. Agreed. 



Mazty said:
sales2099 said:
Mazty said:
sales2099 said:

A successor, regardless of specs.

Its like a father having a handicapped son....you wouldnt Not call the son the "next generation"? lol cmon


Well then how is the xbox part of the 6th gen as it's not a successor to anything?

Gotta start somewhere. But thats a creationism vs evolution debate.

Lolwut.

Creationism - unfounded religious belief.
Evolution - scientific fact

Not quite sure what your anaolgy has to do with defining console generation. Regardless, your definition doesn't work as it doesn't take into account brand new consoles meaning that from the get go, it's a flawed system.

Xbox was a successor to an idea. k



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles.