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Forums - General - Why try to disprove/disagree with religion?

Jay520 on 25 January 2013

Are you people incapable of deleting the unnecessary posts in your quotes?



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EdHieron on 25 January 2013
timmah said:
EdHieron said:
 


Hitler's actions were very much approved of by the Catholic Church and it wasn't until the late 90s that Pope John Paul apolgized for them.

On that note, this will be my last reply to your asinine posts.

I've heard that before and good god, there's a blatent lie. I'm not Catholic and have many problems with the Catholic church, but don't just say crap that's completely false and inflammatory.  *hold on while I do a quick search*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_Nazi_Germany#Mit_brennender_Sorge

The Catholic Church officially condemned the Nazi theory of racism in Germany in 1937 with the Encyclical "Mit Brennender Sorge", signed by Pope Pius XI. Smuggled into Germany to avoid prior censorship and read from the pulpits of all German Catholic churches, it condemned Nazi ideology [28] as "insane and arrogant". It denounced the Nazi myth of "blood and soil", decried neopaganism of Nazism, its war of annihilation against the Church, and even described the Führer himself as a 'mad prophet possessed of repulsive arrogance.'

Although there is some difference of opinion as to the impact of the document, it is generally recognized as the "first ... official public document to criticize Nazism". [31]

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ct_churchandnazis.html

The pope immediately before World War II was Pius XI, who wrote an encyclical condemning National Socialism called Mit Brennender Sorge (On the Church and the German Reich, March 1937). Some citations are included in this article below.

When that pope died in 1939 he was succeeded by Pope Pius XII, who had previously been Vatican Secretary of State. In that role he frequently spoke out against the Nazis, including one notable speech to 250,000 people at Lourdes in 1935 where he said that the Nazis

"are in reality only miserable plagiarists who dress up old errors with new tinsel. It does not make any difference whether they flock to the banners of social revolution, whether they are guided by a false concept of the world and of life, or whether they are possessed by the superstition of a race and blood cult."


As Pope he secretly worked to save as many Jewish lives as possible from the Nazis. Jewish Rabbi Pinchas Lapide wrote that

"The final number of Jewish lives in whose rescue the Catholic Church had been the instrument is thus at least 700,000 souls, but in all probability it is much closer to ... 860,000." (Pinchas E. Lapide, 'Three Popes and the Jews', pp 227-228).


This is more than all other Jewish relief organizations in Europe, combined, were able to save.


Albert Einstein (who was Jewish), reacting to the Nazi persecution of the Jews, was dismayed at the lack of outcry or assistance from secular establishments. He said:

"Only the Catholic Church protested against the Hitlerian onslaught on liberty. Up till then I had not been interested in the Church, but today I feel a great admiration for the Church, which alone has had the courage to struggle for spiritual truth and moral liberty."
(Pinchas E. Lapide, Three Popes and the Jews, pg 251).



The Late Great Christopher Hitchens on Hitler
http://youtu.be/o8VFFW0sbF4


Nazi Belt Buckles:

 

Pope Pius XII played whichever said was most beneficial to him at a given time.



richardhutnik on 25 January 2013

So there is now dancing with Godwin now.

I am curious, at what shape or form could anyone argue that Hitler was a disciple of Jesus? What did Hitler do that would be in line with what Jesus said? If you see the GOP in America, you have many who will blab about Jesus, but how about upholding the teachings of Jesus? Heck, even Ann Coulter in the book Godless she wrote talks on and on about Christianity and even says Jews were Christians in her book (page 8, footnotes). Is there merely naming the name of Jesus and using that make one a Christian?

Here is another piece on the subject:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1699/was-hitler-a-christian

A quick rule of thumb for the Internet is that you can tell who someone considers an enemy by who they associate Hitler with.



EdHieron on 26 January 2013
richardhutnik said:

So there is now dancing with Godwin now.

I am curious, at what shape or form could anyone argue that Hitler was a disciple of Jesus? What did Hitler do that would be in line with what Jesus said? If you see the GOP in America, you have many who will blab about Jesus, but how about upholding the teachings of Jesus? Heck, even Ann Coulter in the book Godless she wrote talks on and on about Christianity and even says Jews were Christians in her book (page 8, footnotes). Is there merely naming the name of Jesus and using that make one a Christian?

Here is another piece on the subject:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1699/was-hitler-a-christian

A quick rule of thumb for the Internet is that you can tell who someone considers an enemy by who they associate Hitler with.


When there was at least 500 years of Catholics ( and other Christian Christian groups) killing and torturing hundreds of thousands of Jews (and other people to death) in Hitler's part of the world (Witch trials continued in Germany  until well into the 19th Century   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_trials_in_the_early_modern_period and anti-Semitism was extremely prevalent in Freud's time in Austria  http://leobaeck.oxfordjournals.org/content/54/1/191.extract ), it's a bit dismissive to assume that those early murderous philosophies had no part in Hitler's thought especially when he opens his book by saying "I have and will always be a Catholic."  (  A discussion of all of Hitler's connections with the Catholic Church:  http://www.remnantofgod.org/nazircc.htm   ).

And for their parts no major Catholic figure in Germany spoke out against Hitler during his time ( unless they had something to gain from it.  It does seem that there was one that like Pope Pius XII tried to play whichever side was mosr beneficial to him at a given time).  No Catholics died in any of Germany's concentration camps in Germany ( some were killed in Nazi concentration camps in Poland http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1999/10/the-holocaust-and-the-catholic-church/305061/   ), and during World War II the Catholics had a major part of running a concentration camp of their own at Jasenovac in Serbia where ~500,000 people were killed and 200,000 people were forcefully committed to Catholicism (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/Jasenovac.html   ).



jake_the_fake1 on 26 January 2013

Why try to disprove/disagree with religion?, Why try to disprove/disagree with suicide?, Why try to disprove/disagree with paedophilia?, Why try to disprove/disagree with rape?, Why try to disprove/disagree with murder?

Easy, because they either hurt themselves or hurt others. The current religions, are no different from regions of the past which are now extinct and relegated to mere mythology. Religion and the holy text is and has been created by man not gods. While fair tales are nice and sweet they should not be taken as fact, it's time people grew up and discover the truth for themselves.

I see things like this, if god was real and could do things which would appear to be supernatural to us, then their would be supernatural phenomena happening all around us, it'll be like Skyrim or any fantasy RPG where such things are the norm so to question a gods existence in that reality would be silly given all the evidence, but the fact is the real world is not like that at all,we do not observe supernatural phenomena.

In fact the world and things in the universe have a pattern, something that physicists can create theories and models with predictive capabilities which can be used to learn how things work. This knowledge built through generations is what has allowed for use right now to be looking at our monitors to read this post. religion and prayers have not brought us to the 21st century, we enjoy what we enjoy thanks to science and the people who spare head technological advancements.

In my opinion religion should be designated as a part of mythology, with it's many text designated as fictional story books, kids fair tales (the good bits with Jesus) and as ancient text with the original scriptures. but nothing more. For those of you who know about the warhamer universe, what we need to establish is the imperial truth ;)



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jake_the_fake1 on 26 January 2013
EdHieron said:
timmah said:
EdHieron said:
 


Hitler's actions were very much approved of by the Catholic Church and it wasn't until the late 90s that Pope John Paul apolgized for them.

On that note, this will be my last reply to your asinine posts.

I've heard that before and good god, there's a blatent lie. I'm not Catholic and have many problems with the Catholic church, but don't just say crap that's completely false and inflammatory.  *hold on while I do a quick search*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_Nazi_Germany#Mit_brennender_Sorge

The Catholic Church officially condemned the Nazi theory of racism in Germany in 1937 with the Encyclical "Mit Brennender Sorge", signed by Pope Pius XI. Smuggled into Germany to avoid prior censorship and read from the pulpits of all German Catholic churches, it condemned Nazi ideology [28] as "insane and arrogant". It denounced the Nazi myth of "blood and soil", decried neopaganism of Nazism, its war of annihilation against the Church, and even described the Führer himself as a 'mad prophet possessed of repulsive arrogance.'

Although there is some difference of opinion as to the impact of the document, it is generally recognized as the "first ... official public document to criticize Nazism". [31]

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ct_churchandnazis.html

The pope immediately before World War II was Pius XI, who wrote an encyclical condemning National Socialism called Mit Brennender Sorge (On the Church and the German Reich, March 1937). Some citations are included in this article below.

When that pope died in 1939 he was succeeded by Pope Pius XII, who had previously been Vatican Secretary of State. In that role he frequently spoke out against the Nazis, including one notable speech to 250,000 people at Lourdes in 1935 where he said that the Nazis

"are in reality only miserable plagiarists who dress up old errors with new tinsel. It does not make any difference whether they flock to the banners of social revolution, whether they are guided by a false concept of the world and of life, or whether they are possessed by the superstition of a race and blood cult."


As Pope he secretly worked to save as many Jewish lives as possible from the Nazis. Jewish Rabbi Pinchas Lapide wrote that

"The final number of Jewish lives in whose rescue the Catholic Church had been the instrument is thus at least 700,000 souls, but in all probability it is much closer to ... 860,000." (Pinchas E. Lapide, 'Three Popes and the Jews', pp 227-228).


This is more than all other Jewish relief organizations in Europe, combined, were able to save.


Albert Einstein (who was Jewish), reacting to the Nazi persecution of the Jews, was dismayed at the lack of outcry or assistance from secular establishments. He said:

"Only the Catholic Church protested against the Hitlerian onslaught on liberty. Up till then I had not been interested in the Church, but today I feel a great admiration for the Church, which alone has had the courage to struggle for spiritual truth and moral liberty."
(Pinchas E. Lapide, Three Popes and the Jews, pg 251).



The Late Great Christopher Hitchens on Hitler
http://youtu.be/o8VFFW0sbF4


Nazi Belt Buckles:

 

Pope Pius XII played whichever said was most beneficial to him at a given time.

The pope exhibits a very human trait, self-preservation. Clearly he did not have enough faith in his god who could save him had he gone against the Germans....unless he sided with the Germans because he believed in their cause...let’s not go there though.

I know most will probably argue that he was not a true Christian (their seems to be no definition as there are so many denominations of Christianity alone), he didn't believe or worship enough, or simply that this was god’s plan for him (for this to be true, then god in effect setup everything required for ww2 to happen, which in its own right is sadistic to say the least). No matter what is said the believers will always spin it to benefit their faith, for this reason no matter what happens faith is never tarnished, just re-enforced.

In any case, just a simply obsevation to make when viewing these type of threads.



DarkD on 26 January 2013

Only bugs me when I see someone actually posting that they have some kind of weird evidence that god exists and then they present some kind of weird twisted nonsense claiming that it proves intelligent design or some other religious belief....

It just blows my mind. I saw this one Youtube video where a guy talked about how science still can't create a living cell from nothing despite everything we know about it, and claimed that was evidence that its intelligent design. Of course he explained it in a much more idiotic fashion claiming that we should be able to make a life form because he thinks we already know everything about organisms.

The stuff below are just things that piss me off. I try and hold my tongue at the stuff below.

Also enough religious assholes come knocking on my door that I don't really feel bad no matter how many anti-religious arguments pop up on the internet. I had people stop me on the streets telling me to go to bible study at the library when it was 20 below and I was trying to get to my work as quickly as possible to get out of the cold....

Lets also take a look at how much religion has slowed down scientific process in the past.. I think its something like 95% of Leonardo Divinci's works that was locked in a christian vault because they were judged as sacrilege. Which they are still holding onto.... If religion had its way, we'd still be offering up a virgin to the pagan gods every week along with living in caves.

Then there is Scientology.... Even the name is enough to set me off.... Are they honestly trying to piss me off.... No matter what happens to them, no matter how much shit gets piled on them, I will not feel the least bit bad about that group of assholes.... They can rot for all I care...

Not to mention we have an entire sect of Mormon pedophiles who enslave their women and make their male children homeless. Add to the list all the crap with Muslims who will suicide bomb anyone who depicts an image of the prophet Mohammed. And last but not least, add on thousands of years of atrocities committed by all religions such as the witch hunts, crusades, etc etc...



EdHieron on 26 January 2013
jake_the_fake1 said:
EdHieron said:
timmah said:
EdHieron said:
 


Hitler's actions were very much approved of by the Catholic Church and it wasn't until the late 90s that Pope John Paul apolgized for them.

On that note, this will be my last reply to your asinine posts.

I've heard that before and good god, there's a blatent lie. I'm not Catholic and have many problems with the Catholic church, but don't just say crap that's completely false and inflammatory.  *hold on while I do a quick search*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_Nazi_Germany#Mit_brennender_Sorge

The Catholic Church officially condemned the Nazi theory of racism in Germany in 1937 with the Encyclical "Mit Brennender Sorge", signed by Pope Pius XI. Smuggled into Germany to avoid prior censorship and read from the pulpits of all German Catholic churches, it condemned Nazi ideology [28] as "insane and arrogant". It denounced the Nazi myth of "blood and soil", decried neopaganism of Nazism, its war of annihilation against the Church, and even described the Führer himself as a 'mad prophet possessed of repulsive arrogance.'

Although there is some difference of opinion as to the impact of the document, it is generally recognized as the "first ... official public document to criticize Nazism". [31]

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ct_churchandnazis.html

The pope immediately before World War II was Pius XI, who wrote an encyclical condemning National Socialism called Mit Brennender Sorge (On the Church and the German Reich, March 1937). Some citations are included in this article below.

When that pope died in 1939 he was succeeded by Pope Pius XII, who had previously been Vatican Secretary of State. In that role he frequently spoke out against the Nazis, including one notable speech to 250,000 people at Lourdes in 1935 where he said that the Nazis

"are in reality only miserable plagiarists who dress up old errors with new tinsel. It does not make any difference whether they flock to the banners of social revolution, whether they are guided by a false concept of the world and of life, or whether they are possessed by the superstition of a race and blood cult."


As Pope he secretly worked to save as many Jewish lives as possible from the Nazis. Jewish Rabbi Pinchas Lapide wrote that

"The final number of Jewish lives in whose rescue the Catholic Church had been the instrument is thus at least 700,000 souls, but in all probability it is much closer to ... 860,000." (Pinchas E. Lapide, 'Three Popes and the Jews', pp 227-228).


This is more than all other Jewish relief organizations in Europe, combined, were able to save.


Albert Einstein (who was Jewish), reacting to the Nazi persecution of the Jews, was dismayed at the lack of outcry or assistance from secular establishments. He said:

"Only the Catholic Church protested against the Hitlerian onslaught on liberty. Up till then I had not been interested in the Church, but today I feel a great admiration for the Church, which alone has had the courage to struggle for spiritual truth and moral liberty."
(Pinchas E. Lapide, Three Popes and the Jews, pg 251).



The Late Great Christopher Hitchens on Hitler
http://youtu.be/o8VFFW0sbF4


Nazi Belt Buckles:

 

Pope Pius XII played whichever said was most beneficial to him at a given time.

The pope exhibits a very human trait, self-preservation. Clearly he did not have enough faith in his god who could save him had he gone against the Germans....unless he sided with the Germans because he believed in their cause...let’s not go there though.

I know most will probably argue that he was not a true Christian (their seems to be no definition as there are so many denominations of Christianity alone), he didn't believe or worship enough, or simply that this was god’s plan for him (for this to be true, then god in effect setup everything required for ww2 to happen, which in its own right is sadistic to say the least). No matter what is said the believers will always spin it to benefit their faith, for this reason no matter what happens faith is never tarnished, just re-enforced.

In any case, just a simply obsevation to make when viewing these type of threads.

 


Why not?  All one has to do is take a look at the death toll piled up by the Church ( in its various guises) to see that being murderous was always one of its key traits ( http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm ).



timmah on 26 January 2013

So this has turned into a bunch of intolerant people attacking and demeaning Christianity and religious people based only on clear perversions & misuses of the original message. You've shown yourselves for what you are, and it's really sad to see this kind of intolerant, closed-minded, bigoted thinking on display. You're all just as bad as the intolerance you claim to hate. There's no reasonable debate to be had with the intolerant, bitter, and biased people above.



EdHieron on 26 January 2013
timmah said:
So this has turned into a bunch of intolerant people attacking and demeaning Christianity and religious people based only on clear perversions & misuses of the original message. You've shown yourselves for what you are, and it's really sad to see this kind of intolerant, closed-minded, bigoted thinking on display. You're all just as bad as the intolerance you claim to hate. There's no reasonable debate to be had with the intolerant, bitter, and biased people above.


I was just stating the facts about Christianity.  Your unwillingness to accept the truth about you religion shows you for what you are.