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Forums - General - You Don't Choose What To Believe In

GameOver22 said:
Jay520 said:
GameOver22 said:
Well, I've never had any problem changing my beliefs....on multiple subjects....politics, religion, video games, the list goes on.

Do I actively choose to change my beliefs? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Its probably more accurate to say that my beliefs change as I gain more information, which it turn changes how I assess different arguments.


The OP doesn't question whether we can alter our beliefs. It questions if we choose our beliefs.

Key sentence bolded.



You can choose to change your beliefs. But that doesn't you choose the beliefs you subsequently obtain.

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Jay520 said:
GameOver22 said:
Jay520 said:
GameOver22 said:
Well, I've never had any problem changing my beliefs....on multiple subjects....politics, religion, video games, the list goes on.

Do I actively choose to change my beliefs? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Its probably more accurate to say that my beliefs change as I gain more information, which it turn changes how I assess different arguments.


The OP doesn't question whether we can alter our beliefs. It questions if we choose our beliefs.

Key sentence bolded.



You can choose to change your beliefs. But that doesn't you choose the beliefs you subsequently obtain.

Good point. Poor wording on my part.

What I mean is that I can choose to belief something different based on information I'm exposed to. For example, in one of my post, I mentioned my belief that Iraq had WMDs, which changed when I gathered more information. At first, I held one belief. This belief then changed, and I subsequently held a different belief (Iraq didn't have WMDs). In other words, I gained more information, and I used this information to choose a new belief.



Thread is pointless. Causality.

/Thread



dsgrue3 said:
Thread is pointless. Causality.

/Thread

Your post was pointless.



You don`t choose what to believe in like you choose what you are going to wear. As simple as faith is, it runs very deep within us. It`s a matter of opening or closing your heart.
Look at St Thomas in the NT: he saw who Jesus was, yet he still doubted. Why?



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GameOver22 said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:


Well, to be honest it was unnecessary by me to mention the word "opinion" as the thread is supposed to be about beliefs.

If we go back to the example in the OP where a person did all he could but still failed to alter his beliefs, would you say that God is just if he says he should have believed in him despite his guts telling him not to believe in God? As you said, we are able to analyze and assess arguments, but if that didn't alter his beliefs then would God be fair if he said, "You should have ignored those feelings and believed in me anyway."? Even if we really are capable of selecting what to believe to some degree, I say God is cruel in that scenario.

Also, I used the expression 'guts' as it expresses a persons' true feelings without having to say "true feelings". It makes it easier to get across the OP's message, as I see it.

1. Aren't true feelings and beliefs just the same way of discussing the same thing, at least in the context of this discussion. I mean there is a difference between internal beliefs (more appropriately termed attitudes) and the outward expression of these beliefs. If someone truly feels God does not exist, it seeems redundant to say they also believe God does not exist. The connection between feeling and belief, at least in terms of internal attitudes, seems necessary to me.

2. Your argument seem to be that feelings come first and then affect beliefs. Personally, if feelings are conceptualized more broadly to mean prior predispositions, I think its a mixture as to which one comes first. Simply, some people form beliefs, and these beliefs then become internalized(beliefs form "feelings"). In turn these predispositions can then affect future judgements  ("feelings" affecting beliefs).

As to the God question, I don't think God would punish someone for failing to believe in him.

1. Indeed. No disagreements here.

2. As I see it doesn't really matter if feelings affect beliefs or the other way around: You don't choose how to feel when faced with a scenario, and you don't choose what to believe when forced to make a judgement. In other words I don't think God has the right to blame you for having certain feelings over an issue or for having certain beliefs. After analyzing the situation the guts have made up their mind in any case, and you can't choose to ignore your guts, unless you want to live in denial. Sure, God could claim that they should have analyzed the situation better to achieve the 'correct' belief, but they did what they thought was right at the time.



sethnintendo said:
dsgrue3 said:
Thread is pointless. Causality.

/Thread

Your post was pointless.


Then you did not understand it. Read it again. Put down the crayons first, big guy.



There a difference between guts and being stubborn you have described the latter.

If someone chooses to be stubborn that's there fault because they have the ability to not be.

If you believe in fairies no other reason than you believe in them that's not guts that being stubborn or duillusional.

You confused the terms around to where your point its pretty incoherent. By the way why did you pretend that "guts" decisions is considered crediable by God? This assumes way to much to give and actually contradictions the whole idea of Christianity.

"
that we get to choose whether we want to follow him or not. This obviously leaves a lot of room for interpretations: Some think that following God's message (i.e. being a good person to your fellow human beings) is the most important part, others put close- or even equal value in believing that God himself actually does exist, or even that believing that he does exist is a must if you want to enter his kingdom after you have died; given that you have been acknowledged of his existence, of course."

I want to focus on this piece real quick.

Do you mean by get to choose? You mean like make conscience decision? Or God says it ok not believe in him?

Two:God's message is to do good but that isn't the most important part. That would be the remember Jesus atonement and that through Jesus we can see salvation. There is more to it but I want to keep it short.

Three: more then just believing in God.

Four: if you had knowledge of God's existence and you still rejected him that's not called guts that's called being stubborn. I believe you poorly use the word guts.

Really nothing left to respond to because most of it is just repeating yourself based incorrect data leaving to a false conclusion.

The gut thing is really a point of why would God be angry/doom them based on them doing something wrong based on there current understanding in which I covered with him before. If he saying a guy flat out ignores the evidence because it contradicts what they currently believe than that's being stubborn and is the reason fault as many have overcome this everyday in there lives. If he goes with the latter I have to say cry moar because that's not a good excuse.



"Excuse me sir, I see you have a weapon. Why don't you put it down and let's settle this like gentlemen"  ~ max

Can someone explain to me why religion is such a huge debate in America right now? Here in Canada no one talks about religion. If someone is religious that's their business, and if someone isn't that's fine too, but it seems like everywhere on the internet Americans are having a huge blowout about religion.



I was walking down along the street and I heard this voice saying, "Good evening, Mr. Dowd." Well, I turned around and here was this big six-foot rabbit leaning up against a lamp-post. Well, I thought nothing of that because when you've lived in a town as long as I've lived in this one, you get used to the fact that everybody knows your name.

GameOver22 said:

Good point. Poor wording on my part.

What I mean is that I can choose to belief something different based on information I'm exposed to. For example, in one of my post, I mentioned my belief that Iraq had WMDs, which changed when I gathered more information. At first, I held one belief. This belief then changed, and I subsequently held a different belief (Iraq didn't have WMDs). In other words, I gained more information, and I used this information to choose a new belief.

While I do agree that people can choose to put forth an effort to obtain information to alter their beliefs, I don't think people choose which specific belief they will obtain (which is what I think the OP is saying). Yes, you can gain information willingly. But how your brain analyzes that information and how it draws conclusion on the world...I don't think we choose that. Your brain, if it's healthy, will try to make conclusions that it deems to be the most accurate of the world.