Yeah. I get up at 4am and the routine lasts till about 8am. I'm fortunate that my work/study situation is such that I can come/go as I please. I'm a beginner though - the mind has an independent will ;)

I do not criticise people for there religious views and I don't want you to criticise me.  I'm glad whatever created me had created me but that is it.  

Aah, but herein lies the whole point. A machine is simply carrying out predetermined instructions. More than this, the experience of "I'ness" (and our language really does fail us here) is not conceivably possible for a machine... Or (shielding the screaming protests from my ears)...

If it were, then it should be entirely possible to similate a computer personage that has the same experience of identity as you and I have. As I've said before, this really requires some reflection. What is the common factor in "the you" of now and "the you" that was playing on the grass as a 5 year old? What could it possibly be?

Firstly, I'm just loving your philosophical standpoint here. Depressingly few people have the empathy to realize that we're in the exact same position as so many before us and that our ideas and conclusions are likely to seem as foolish to future generations as older theories do to us. Considering some thinkers had this stuff down millenia ago, we really are sub-par in some respects.

Despite this, I think it's much more interesting to disagree with you. In particular, you're being far too cynical about modern human culture. I mean, surely you realize that this idea of newer generations being too irresponsible and not thinking enough is also as ancient as they come? Why would you think you're right about this when, historically, people haven't been?

Also, I don't think watching TV and commenting online a lot are necessarily opposed to thinking and self control at all. If you really think people lack self control today, I think that they always have and you're attributing a causal relationship to this lack of thinking and an increase in these modern indulgences because you've just taken note of them at the same time.

"Criticism. Blame. Judgement"

These don't form part of the discusion here. The purpose of a forum is to share and comment on ideas. That's communication is it not? I'm not trying to impose my will here, or to minimize other's sense of self, but you're now simply putting your head in the ground like an ostrich and that surely won't ever achieve anything?

" I'm glad whatever created me had created me but that is it.  "

Then you are not one who wishes to know the reason behind the phenomena we percieve. That is ok, there's nothing wrong with it. But then merely blurting out an opinion is a little counter-productive to progress as a whole and also to your self-admitted existential view.

Isn't it important to ask why you are "glad" that you exist?

The ability to distance one's emotions and very self from the issue of discussion (as you have done here) is a beacon of the path of progress! Let me consider your points for a moment.

consciousness of course

people has been asking why they've existed forever, and we will never know the answer.  

I was answering the OT was I not?  That is my opinion on the matter.  Just like I feel all religions are.  I was not criticising, I was not blaming, and I was not judging so please tell me how I was.

I was brought up in a christian house hold but I have not followed it for my own reasons.

"Its like gay marriage, you got a group of people telling another group of people how to live their lives, and you can't do that.  You really have to check what country you live in because that freedom that allows you to practice religion is the same freedom you are stepping on, and that's not right.  And I want to add that if there was a nation of gay married couples who were telling you that you couldn't practice religion I'd be speaking out for you too.  So let's stop the nonsense." Brad Pitt.

I agree with this completely.

"you're being far too cynical about modern human culture. I mean, surely you realize that this idea of newer generations being too irresponsible and not thinking enough is also as ancient as they come?"

I would like to suggest that I'm not being cynical at all, but merely that the human being has complete ignorance of his own potential. Significantly, my position is that the human being has systematically forgotten his position. I don't want to debate your points here, because that will inevitably go into an infinite digress. What you have done is used my claim that our other friend here was being an absolutist towards his own culture whilst claiming to subscribe to a relativistic world and turned it against my implicit evolved man that I haven't specifically pin pointed.

If I tried to debate that now then we would traverse the field of Anthropology heavily (and it is usually a fruitless task to even begin that) and I loathe it so much anyway. My world view of history and yours is no doubt radically different. The linear timelines accepted nowadays is a far cry from my "we have always existed" understanding. I don't want to debate that point, because then evolution, the British empire, India, Hinduism, the Maya, and a lot of archeaology would become involved.

Point being my shift has ended and our beam is back online and the apprentice nuclear physicist here has now been informed of the modus operandi.

:)

But you like to debate for debate's sake, and (if my memory serves me correctly) then you are rather adept at it...

So, even though it's 4 hours past my bedtime and I'm getting up in 3, I'm going to go ahead (since I can't resist) and use the exact same point as you used on me:

"I don't think watching TV and commenting online a lot are necessarily opposed to thinking and self control at all"

How would you know something is hindering you're progress in a certain direction if that very thing is all you've ever known? When was the last time you've spent a significant amount of days away from a 'i flash 50 times per second' one-eyed-guru? Have you experimented with real self control? Control of the tongue, stomach and genitals? How about observing your own thoughts consciously for an entire day - what about always doing so? Too much strain? Too difficult? Or is it just such a foreign idea that it is much easier to dismiss it?

" think that they always have and you're attributing a causal relationship to this lack of thinking and an increase in these modern indulgences because you've just taken note of them at the same time."

Whilst I like this argument (it's ethos has surfaced a few times now), can it not almost always be applied? Blaming (not used in the derogetory sense here) the accused (ditto ;) ) of simply being caught up in his own world?

^ We have now reached the very limits of our Western philosophy with this point. To crack these walls one needs to venture far beyond the walls of the academic west. There where the professor scrutinizes without become one with the teachings. There where the teacher isn't fundamentally required. There where I just take tax payers money and observe one of the biggest shams in the world. Oh peasants, you need not look to the ground in shame for your lack of papers hanging on the wall. These intellectual giants can hardly move pebbles in the real world.

I might be digressing, or even avoiding the points, but I've just done physics for the last obscene-amount-of-hours and I need some relief for my mind. I'm sure you don't mind.

:)

A man and a woman can biologically create a child together. The expression of love between two men is the insertion of one's penus into the other's anus. I'm stating facts here.

Just because something is possible doesn't mean it should be done. Our modern culture is so proud of being liberal. Well give yourself an applause for not burning any witches. Well done indeed - what an accomplishment.

There are other things possible as well you know:

- dreversing

Definition: The steering of an automobile in the reverse direction as a fundamental means of transportation.

- bottoring

Definition: The buttering of bread on the bottom side instead of the traditionally accepted top side.

Next thing the advocates of these will start trying to convince me how we're all equal. Anyone who believes we're all equal has never contemplated this world before. Next thing is that I'll be called a discriminator. Yes, I discriminate. It's what I do. Sure, maybe (or maybe not) I've had the urge to kiss an attractive guy and spend the night with him. But I distance my actions and desires from my reasoning ability due to ... well, read the exchange between myself and Conegamer - we assume ourselves special. Let's slay this vice before it consumes us.