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Forums - General Discussion - Mafia Round 50 - Superheroes & Villains

DarkThanatos on 27 November 2012

Here is his Nacho's lists and votes: 

Nachomamma8 said:
So, here are my reads in a more condensed form:

TOWN:
ABC
Miz
DT
Mantle
Linkz
Hatmoza
Mario
Radish
Danne
Zero

SCUM:
tabaha
prof
Haxton
ninetaleschris
(happyd)
(yoshiya)

Ninetaleschris is probably my most comfortable scumread simply because he's new and I've seen so many like him before, but tabaha is a close second. Prof/Haxton are wagons I wouldn't blink for a second at, but I'd prefer one of these two first.

Vote: Ninetaleschris


and then 

Nachomamma8 said:
DarkThanatos said:
Is Ninetalechris a new player? 
If he is, I thought we didn't lynch new players night one as a general unofficial rule?

I understand this if he is around and participating, but if he's just going to be a lump of scum, then I see no reason why to save the slot for later. I suppose it wouldn't hurt too much giving him one more day, though.

Unvote, Vote: tabaha

Tabaha, what did you think of my latest string of posting? Which reads do you agree with? Which reads do you disagree with?

He later says that

"I will Unvote, Vote: ninetaleschris because it's become clear to me as scum and I honestly don't see a good reason why we shouldn't lynch him today"



So hyped for Rome 2: Total War

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DarkThanatos on 27 November 2012

From Nacho's votes these are the main players he might have been killed for suspecting.
Tabaha, Prof and Haxton predominately.



So hyped for Rome 2: Total War

Yoshiya on 27 November 2012
TruckOSaurus said:
Yoshiya said:
DarkThanatos said:

Are you claiming an investigative role here Mantle? 

Why are you certain? If you do have a valid reason youa re certain of his scummyness I will follow you on it, and if he is town then we will lynch you tomorrow. 

It sounds like all you need to suddenly trust your "biggest scumspect" is for him to say he is an investigative role here. Isn't that a pretty big turn around? How do you know Mantle isn't just a rolecop scum trying to get rid of a powerful town role and you are willing to change you mind on him that quickly?

Your theory about mantle is near impossible since mantle isn't stupid, he wouldn't trade his life even for a powerful townie role but please keep on questionning DT on his flipflopping.

Oh I know the theory was ridiculous, I was just wondering how the hell DT went from saying "Mantle is my biggest scumspect" to "If you claim investigative role I will vote whoever you tell me to".



Yoshiya on 27 November 2012
DarkThanatos said:
Yoshiya said:
DarkThanatos said:

Are you claiming an investigative role here Mantle? 

Why are you certain? If you do have a valid reason youa re certain of his scummyness I will follow you on it, and if he is town then we will lynch you tomorrow. 

It sounds like all you need to suddenly trust your "biggest scumspect" is for him to say he is an investigative role here. Isn't that a pretty big turn around? How do you know Mantle isn't just a rolecop scum trying to get rid of a powerful town role and you are willing to change you mind on him that quickly?

Sigh. I'm not trusting him. I'm trying to catch him out and at the same time, get a win-win. 

If he is trying to get rid of a powerful role then that Haxton will claim and we will stop. If he is a rolecop then Mafia will already know the role so it doesn't matter if that player claims, and then we would know Mantle was scum and would kill him. 

If Mantle is town, and has a role which can find scum, then he would have found scum, we would lynch Haxton, and then the doc would protect Mantle. 

By doing this it's a win-win for town. I find your push on me here when I'm trying to setup a win-win disturbing. 

HoS Yoshiya

I question your willingness to completely turn your opinion on someone from being your "biggest scumspect" to effectively "confirmed townie for a Day" and suddenly I'm scum? Please explain the logic behind that.



Final-Fan on 27 November 2012
mantlepiecek said:
Final-Fan said:

You may have had other "exact reasoning", but you were definitely using the "only scum would consider two factions" argument as if it was a good argument in support of your case.  Which it's not, IMO. 

No. I said he was using it to support another argument. That is not what I said.

A theory that is weird, highly improbable, and if actually true, points at you being 100% scum. Because scum usually tend to make weird theories, it is my reasoning that you are scum by virtue of this reasoning that you MADE UP to support your statement about zero - that it was reasonable to expect some scum to be on his "lynch train".

Do you know you made the same slip last time we had two scum teams? Yeah; it is a weird theory to make up out of nowhere simply to support another weird statement, as if this is how mafia games normally tend to be.

It's a little less compelling when it's "a not unreasonable nor improbable theory mentioned in support of a weird statement".  What you're left with seems to be the allegation that he invoked the possibility of two factions to help support his case against zero, which if true is pretty weaksauce on his part. 

The bolded is wrong, the derived if/then of him being scum if it's true is therefore unfounded, etc. 

(This is from Day 1)



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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

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Final-Fan on 27 November 2012
miz1q2w3e said:
Guys, I believe what 9TC was saying before he died. All of it.

Vote: tabaha

Why don't you try reading the OP?  The part where his role is ONE SHOT day vig, not infinite shot as he claimed, and nothing whatsoever about investigations? 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan on 27 November 2012
theprof00 said:
His exact first claim was that he could shoot everyday and investigate once.
And that he could do the investigate as well as shooting in that one day.

I dont see how that role is entirely unbelievable, seeing as we know nothing about mafia roles and counters or anything like that. It's a meta reasoning as to why he should have been lynched yesterday and i see linkz is content to use his tired broken reasoning and be wrong again and again as well.

Vigilante is a very swingy role that in the wrong hands just bevomes another mafia kill. Giving it a single cop ability isnt that unbelievable, even if its during the same day hes shooting. Theres no guarantee hed even cop a scum for that matter.

If someone with a history (in that game) of questionable play claimed bulletproof cop, would you be inclined to believe him with the presumption that the mafia was incredibly powerful in compensation? 



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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

mantlepiecek on 27 November 2012
Final-Fan said:
mantlepiecek said:
Final-Fan said:

You may have had other "exact reasoning", but you were definitely using the "only scum would consider two factions" argument as if it was a good argument in support of your case.  Which it's not, IMO. 

No. I said he was using it to support another argument. That is not what I said.

A theory that is weird, highly improbable, and if actually true, points at you being 100% scum. Because scum usually tend to make weird theories, it is my reasoning that you are scum by virtue of this reasoning that you MADE UP to support your statement about zero - that it was reasonable to expect some scum to be on his "lynch train".

Do you know you made the same slip last time we had two scum teams? Yeah; it is a weird theory to make up out of nowhere simply to support another weird statement, as if this is how mafia games normally tend to be.

It's a little less compelling when it's "a not unreasonable nor improbable theory mentioned in support of a weird statement".  What you're left with seems to be the allegation that he invoked the possibility of two factions to help support his case against zero, which if true is pretty weaksauce on his part. 

The bolded is wrong, the derived if/then of him being scum if it's true is therefore unfounded, etc. 

(This is from Day 1)

The bolded isn't wrong imo at least.

DT said he is suspicious of zero - then zero said that at least one person amongst 4 who were pushing him were scum - then DT said that it is possible through statistics since there are 1 scum out of 4 players as a ratio - I asked does that work even if zero was scum? LIke he thought at the time - He said it is possible scum of opposite factions/3rd party serial killers may vote other parties since they try and get a mislynch - Said he didn't know how 3rd party players play since he has never been 3rd party so he maybe wrong.

This is in short why I think DT is scum. That is apart from what he said later on - he asked if I was on the second team.



Final-Fan on 27 November 2012
theprof00 said:
Was there anyone yesterday who doubted ONLY the investigation ability, but not his towniness?

Doubting the investigation ability was probably the biggest reason I had for doubting his towniness. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan on 27 November 2012
mantlepiecek said:
Final-Fan said:
mantlepiecek said:
Final-Fan said:

You may have had other "exact reasoning", but you were definitely using the "only scum would consider two factions" argument as if it was a good argument in support of your case.  Which it's not, IMO. 

No. I said he was using it to support another argument. That is not what I said.

A theory that is weird, highly improbable, and if actually true, points at you being 100% scum. Because scum usually tend to make weird theories, it is my reasoning that you are scum by virtue of this reasoning that you MADE UP to support your statement about zero - that it was reasonable to expect some scum to be on his "lynch train".

Do you know you made the same slip last time we had two scum teams? Yeah; it is a weird theory to make up out of nowhere simply to support another weird statement, as if this is how mafia games normally tend to be.

It's a little less compelling when it's "a not unreasonable nor improbable theory mentioned in support of a weird statement".  What you're left with seems to be the allegation that he invoked the possibility of two factions to help support his case against zero, which if true is pretty weaksauce on his part. 

The bolded is wrong, the derived if/then of him being scum if it's true is therefore unfounded, etc. 

(This is from Day 1)

The bolded isn't wrong imo at least.

DT said he is suspicious of zero - then zero said that at least one person amongst 4 who were pushing him were scum - then DT said that it is possible through statistics since there are 1 scum out of 4 players as a ratio - I asked does that work even if zero was scum? LIke he thought at the time - He said it is possible scum of opposite factions/3rd party serial killers may vote other parties since they try and get a mislynch - Said he didn't know how 3rd party players play since he has never been 3rd party so he maybe wrong.

This is in short why I think DT is scum. That is apart from what he said later on - he asked if I was on the second team.

If you separate out "there may be two mafia factions" from "I (DT) suspect zero is on one and it's likely someone who voted him is on the other", then the two mafia factions theory isn't highly improbable at all IMO. 

If you don't separate them but only consider it as a whole, then yeah it is pretty convoluted.  But there are plently of players that settle on a suspicion and do weird mental gymnastics to try and justify it.  If anything it's a town trait since scum don't normally have reason to stick their neck out going after a lynch. 

In fact, what did his math about the likelihood of mafia being on any given lynch have to do with anything at all? 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom!