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Forums - Politics - Who won the debate? Romney or Obama?

 

Who won the debate?

President Barack Obama 220 34.65%
 
Governor Mitt Romney 265 41.73%
 
Nobody 141 22.20%
 
Total:626
theprof00 said:
MrBubbles said:
its not like people are arguing for something like frances 75% tax...a couple percentages wouldnt kill them and wouldnt put the rate to a drastic level... and most of them have people to play with their money so they pay far less anyways.

Agreed. I'm not looking for an increase of even 5, or even 2.5%. Just closing some loopholes that don't help anyone, or reducing offset taxes like capital gains by 5%, and an increase of 1%. Hell, I wouldn't even mind if the rich had their sales tax added as an offset.

The rich should be rewarded for spending money, not hoarding it.
I would like a break in the payroll tax, I would like breaks for every extra person who is hired. For example, the percentage of income you pay on payroll (minus the execs) is the percentage of taxed revenue you can defer. I mean wow, that would fix so much. So simple. Companies wouldn't say 'let's hire the cheapest labor possible', they'd say, 'for every dollar extra we spend on our payroll, we can defer another 30% of taxes, why not get capable employees?'.

The more we spend on our payroll and number of workers the better the tax offset we get.

Simply taxing a company less doesn't solve anything. You need to incentivize.

It can be argued that the rich should be rewarded for practicing less thrift and investing and do more consumption, to get the economy moving.  An issue here though, is that things got to where they are by people saving, and investing.  Because of this, the entire system is geared towards having people invest, by making the tax rate for capital gains lower, and other things.  The whole saving and investing is how improvements are done, and you raise the standard of living for people.  Thing now I would say is that this has gone so well, the investments have resulted in productivity gains that have outstripped the areas to move workers into.  Demand for labor has a downward pressure, but also weird very high demands for specific sets of skills, which then causes shortages.

And all this ends up having a big vibe of centralized planning.  You end up artificially tipping the economy certain ways.  This is a problem.  What would be needed is to end up looking at what causes dysfunctions in the economy and malinvesting, malconsumption, and malproduction.  Then also have what is seen as needed to enable people to have a minimum standard to live, and have hope.  And get everything else out of the way, outside of trying to prevent negative outcomes that have really bad results.



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Kantor said:
mrstickball said:
Mr Khan said:

Some of the best times for America economically were the post World War II era, when top marginal rates were 90%

If the people see society as underfunded and unable to function, while the rich just get richer and richer, things are going to happen.


We also didn't have the EPA, and a million government regulations to deal with. We also had a sound currency, and a much more competitive corporate tax rate.

Give our economy those things, and a higher tax rate wouldn't matter.

Not to mention economic and cultural domination of practically the entire world.

It does help when your country has the world's manufacturing base, because most of the rest blew up, due to war.  It is interesting that doring the 1960s, Playboy magazine ran an article on how you could do away with personal income tax by shifting how youy taxed, including getting rid of tax exempt status for churches.



kaneada said:
gergroy said:

they both talked over the moderator about the same amount of times.  In the end, Obama ended up with almost 5 minutes more of speaking time than romney did.  I say Obama was on the defensive more because of the actual words they were speaking.  Obama was defending his policies a lot more than romney was defending his own.  Romney also threw out more attacks at Obama than vice versa.  

Romney wasn't defensive, he was agressive, that is what you were noticing.  There is a very large difference.  

I disagree wtih your definition of aggressive...using distractions, such as pointing the presidents record out ad nauseum in an effort to mask that you have no actual solutions of your own (anything he did offer was abstract at best), is more of a tactical retreat and is therefore defensive behavior.

now that is a perfect example of "spin" if I ever saw it.

Somehow, attacking the presidents record is now a defensive move instead of an offensive move.  So, by your logic, if romney had been deffending his own policies he would have been on the offense?  



Kenology said:
Neither. The scope of the debate is far too narrow.

No talk about poverty, wealth inequality, the disappearing middle class, police brutality, stop & frisk, the ever-expanding surveillance state, closing Guantanamo, NDAA, union-busting, the assault on public education, fracking, the Keystone oil pipeline, climate change, the UN arms treaty, etc.

Romney most certainly did bring up several of theose issues. He mentioned the increase of those now living in poverty (1 in 6 Americans if you believe the stat) and he also mentioned the decrease in wages, increase of Americans on Food stamps by over 15 million Americans etc. His answer for those is fostering an economy that will allow jobs to be created so people aren't on food stamps and aren't stuck in poverty.

He also mentioned the Keystone pipeline and what he would do about it . While he didn't specifically mention fracking he most assuredly had that in mind when he talks about energy independence. Most likely he is for Fracking and the pipeline etc. as they are PROVEN sources of energy and for the foreseeable future are the way we will be powering our world. So he mentioned utilizing those to strengthen our economy. Or for the simple minded....Drill, Drill, Drill.

They both mentioned the middle class multiple times during the debate and I for one am sick of hearing about the middle class even if I fall into that category. I am looking to break aay from that class and become wealthy myself. This idea that people can ONLY be happy if they are middle class is nonsense and the whole argument ought to be strcken from the debates. While more money can be helpful in life it isn't necessary and even the poorest of Americans are the envy of the real impoverished human beings in other countries around the world.

They both talked about education in this country (as it was a specific topic) and Romney mentioned choice in education (I'm sure you view that as an attack on public education) and Obama repeated the Status Quo of "More teachers." Choice means competition in education and as a parent of three children one being Autistic I am all for it.

No they didn't discuss wealth inequality because its a stupid issue, there is always income inequality. It's a subjective issue as no one has the same perspective on what constitutes inequality. Is it they make 100 or 10000 or 100000000 dollars more than the next guy.

As for the ever expanding surveillance state, NDAA, police brutality, stop&frisk etc. there is only so much that can be covered and of all those those topics aren't the top issues of the day. As important as they are most Americans don't see them as the most pressing issues of the day.



arcane_chaos said:
is it me or Romney getting a little to cocky/a little disrespectful....I mean everytime Obama's getting his(or trying to) get his point across he's smiling/grinning....



So now its disrespectful to actually LOOK at the person who is speaking? He's was being polite and professional. He was giving Obama his attention by actively listening to the most powerful man in the world. So what if he was smiling. For F#*! sake's if he was doing what Obama did the whole time you'd all besaying how disrespectful he was and how he couldn't stand with Obama.

The man whooped the crap outta the Obama by being professional and polite while laying out facts, adressing every point Obama made and ENGAGED Obama and the people watching. Obama kept his head down, smiled and agreed with a lot of what Romney said and even said things like Romney is the candidate for you etc. Usually when people can't look at you they are knowingly intimidated and/or are lying.

I'm sorry but Obama looked like a peewee league ball player out there with a Major Leaguer. It wasn't even close.



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The "real" Pres. obama today
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/82033.html?hp=f1



spurgeonryan said:
I think Roney lost. He showed his true agenda when he was talking about schools. " I want to grade teachers so that parents know what schools to send their kids to". What parent can afford that? He plans to be pro rich person during his presidency because he is out of touch with everyday joe..

Obama one even though he is probably out of touch as well and he talked like he was on speed.



Dumbest post ever.... If there was choice in the poll to say who lost I'd have voted for you.

Moderated,

-Mr Khan



Nik24 said:
The "real" Pres. obama today
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/82033.html?hp=f1



What is "real" about a canned speech in front of a group of supporters? "Real" was last night when debating on issues in front of the whole country against his opponent. If that is the "real" Obama then he is in trouble.



Nik24 said:
The "real" Pres. obama today
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/82033.html?hp=f1


maybe we should elect president obama's speech writer?  He seems to do a better job than the president himself...



spurgeonryan said:
gergroy said:
Nik24 said:
The "real" Pres. obama today
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/82033.html?hp=f1


maybe we should elect president obama's speech writer?  He seems to do a better job than the president himself...


Obama is usually a very good speaker. Maybe it is the fact that he is the president of the US and has other things on his mind. All romney has on his mind is spending a million dollars a day just for fun and winning this election.


I agree, he usually is a good speaker, but he hardly ever speaks without a prepared speech.  He almost always has a teleprompter in front of him.  

Romney generally does too, but his speeches aren't very good, which is why I complimented Obama's...