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Forums - Microsoft - OUCH! MS has to write off >$6bn in Q4 to post a Q4 loss

Sal.Paradise said:
DirtyP2002 said:
Train wreck said:
zarx said:
anyone care care too fill me in on why the cost of buying a company 5 years ago is a loss this quarter? I never really "got" accounting.


Because the preceived value that the company was supposed to bring (in terms of revenue) has never/will never materialize.  So Microsoft is writing off the entire purchase and removing it from its books.  Its an admission that they made a mistake in purchasing the company.  Its was good for the people at aQuantive as they probably knew the company was a loser and they sold out at an extremely high price.  The average selling price of companies in that space back in was ~ 1 billion, Microsoft overpaid by at least 5x.

I dont see how steve Ballmer is not fired.  He is spending Microsoft money recklessly (aQuantive, Skype, supporting losers like Nokia)


revenue of MS when Steve Ballmer became CEO: < 23 billion USD
revenue of MS now: > 70 billion USD

Number of employees when Steve Ballmer became CEO: 39k
Number of employees now: 70k

That is why.

And then you take a look at Google and Apple and wonder where Microsoft could have been with a competent CEO.

And you take a look at RIM and Sony, and don't have to wonder where Microsoft could have been with a non competent CEO.



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Sal.Paradise said:
DirtyP2002 said:
Train wreck said:
zarx said:
anyone care care too fill me in on why the cost of buying a company 5 years ago is a loss this quarter? I never really "got" accounting.


Because the preceived value that the company was supposed to bring (in terms of revenue) has never/will never materialize.  So Microsoft is writing off the entire purchase and removing it from its books.  Its an admission that they made a mistake in purchasing the company.  Its was good for the people at aQuantive as they probably knew the company was a loser and they sold out at an extremely high price.  The average selling price of companies in that space back in was ~ 1 billion, Microsoft overpaid by at least 5x.

I dont see how steve Ballmer is not fired.  He is spending Microsoft money recklessly (aQuantive, Skype, supporting losers like Nokia)


revenue of MS when Steve Ballmer became CEO: < 23 billion USD
revenue of MS now: > 70 billion USD

Number of employees when Steve Ballmer became CEO: 39k
Number of employees now: 70k

That is why.

And then you take a look at Google and Apple and wonder where Microsoft could have been with a competent CEO.

IF MS were as successful as Google and Apple in their respective markets I know were MS would be... they would be split.

Seriously, you can't expect one company to rule the entire tech-industry for hardware, software and online solutions. So I think Ballmer did a pretty good job with the .NET framework, the Xbox, Windows, Azure, SQL-Servers etc.



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Millenium said:
Suprised this took so long to post. :P

Anyways, I don't really understand this concept of writing off their value?

Guess we'll see a ~1B loss for the quarter then, not favourable, but not too bad all things considering.


Companies write off values based on the current value of assets (even liabilities etc) over time. Such a thing happens when a drastic change occurs to the overall value of an asset that lost it's value and can not be reasonably expected to change back to the estimated value in the foreseeable future. In such cases it's 'required' that they do a write off in US GAAP

Basically MS knows now this investment has gone to shit. It sucks but that's the nature of investments. You win some you lose some.

just woke up so if I just typed a bunch of gibberish hard to understand, I apologize :P



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kowenicki said:
Nice tax dodge...


Do you know the tax brackets they fall under and have avoided thanks to this or?



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M.U.G.E.N said:
Millenium said:
Suprised this took so long to post. :P

Anyways, I don't really understand this concept of writing off their value?

Guess we'll see a ~1B loss for the quarter then, not favourable, but not too bad all things considering.


Companies write off values based on the current value of assets (even liabilities etc) over time. Such a thing happens when a drastic change occurs to the overall value of an asset that lost it's value and can not be reasonably expected to change back to the estimated value in the foreseeable future. In such cases it's 'required' that they do a write off in US GAAP

Basically MS knows now this investment has gone to shit. It sucks but that's the nature of investments. You win some you lose some.

just woke up so if I just typed a bunch of gibberish hard to understand, I apologize :P



Cheers for explaining that (Accounting never was my strong point :p), makes sense now, I didn't even think of the fact that it was considered as a asset before you reminded :)



Millenium said:
M.U.G.E.N said:
Millenium said:
Suprised this took so long to post. :P

Anyways, I don't really understand this concept of writing off their value?

Guess we'll see a ~1B loss for the quarter then, not favourable, but not too bad all things considering.


Companies write off values based on the current value of assets (even liabilities etc) over time. Such a thing happens when a drastic change occurs to the overall value of an asset that lost it's value and can not be reasonably expected to change back to the estimated value in the foreseeable future. In such cases it's 'required' that they do a write off in US GAAP

Basically MS knows now this investment has gone to shit. It sucks but that's the nature of investments. You win some you lose some.

just woke up so if I just typed a bunch of gibberish hard to understand, I apologize :P



Cheers for explaining that (Accounting never was my strong point :p), makes sense now, I didn't even think of the fact that it was considered as a asset before you reminded :)

Yeha no prob. They are writing it off here instead of writing it down. It means the investment is being considered as impaired and not decrease in value. They are iirc taking the whole investment out of their books now with this.

The matter of kowen is trying to make above is that you can use such a thing as an itemized deduction in your income taxes later on. But the two problems with that theory is

1. This one was no way intentional. Write offs never reflect good on a company or it's management. This was something that was unavoidable

2. The way this could be a tax benefit is that, atleast a really significant one (keep in mind this is one of the biggest companies in the world, so their tax amounts should be pretty impressive as well) would be if this 6 billion amount of moves them down to a lower tax bracket (as in the more you earn the more % they tax you, so for example someone who earns 100k will get taxed 15% but someone who earns 99k only get taxed for 10%)

From a financial point of view, there are several ways we can look at a situation like this. Imho it's a very bad outcome with some positives in a tax deduction.

But this is the world of technology, stuff like this happens. Such is the nature of investments in tech in a rapidly changing industry



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kowenicki said:
M.U.G.E.N said:
kowenicki said:
Nice tax dodge...


Do you know the tax brackets they fall under and have avoided thanks to this or?


It would be slightly different in the UK... but thinking about it even then only if the value improved again at a later date (through some capital reliefs). 

 

So I guess its just a paper write off of an asset on the balance sheet.  Basically they are writing off the cash they paid 5 years ago for the investment.  So they spent $6bn a few years ago on nothing.  The loss was felt when they spent it in reality, here they are just confirming it was money for nothing.

Shit happens.  They can afford it.

I explained above (in response to millenium) how it would work under US GAAP. They are taking out their initial investment amount + any value added over the years etc out of the books, basically claiming the asset is impaired.

I definitely agree with the bolded. Especially given the nature of the investment



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man-bear-pig said:
Steven Ballmer is officially the worst CEO in the history of the universe

Ballmer is a great CEO. He is giving Microsoft a vision for the future. Merging Windows desktop with tablets and phones. Windows Phone 8 is built on the same kernel as Windows RT.



DirtyP2002 said:

IF MS were as successful as Google and Apple in their respective markets I know were MS would be... they would be split.

Seriously, you can't expect one company to rule the entire tech-industry for hardware, software and online solutions. So I think Ballmer did a pretty good job with the .NET framework, the Xbox, Windows, Azure, SQL-Servers etc.

Weird mentality. If a company has such a commanding position in computer software and services with their Windows products I certainly do expect them to be capable of making a successful phone OS, online services or content delivery for those platforms.