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Forums - Politics - What happens if ObamaCare is overturned?

Bong Lover said:
Kasz216 said:
Actually to be honest, the Repeal of don't ask don't tell HURT gay rights.

Because on repeal the lawsuit got overturned for being "pointless" since the lawsuit was overturned.

If it was upheld (and i believe it would of been) it would of set a legal precedent that would of been a bedrock precedent in pretty much any gay discrimination lawsuit.


I am not a big fan of grammar policing, but three 'would of's in one sentence?!?

On topic; I find your reasoning highly speculative.

How so?



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SamuelRSmith said:
TadpoleJackson said:

According to this, 26


Weren't these just the states that took this thing to the Supreme Court in the first place? Passing nullification would require so much more.

http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/nullification/health-care/

Nullification hasn't been a valid recourse of states since Andrew Jackson threatened John Calhoun and South Carolina with martial law over the matter. It was rightly closed then and hasn't really re-emerged.

Funny, though, that the states nullifying this represent some of the worst living/educational standards in the country. And of course, the great state of Pennsylvania with Tom "let's pull Mother Nature's panties down and rape her silly because there's natural gas to be had!" Corbett at the helm.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Kasz216 said:
Bong Lover said:
Kasz216 said:
Actually to be honest, the Repeal of don't ask don't tell HURT gay rights.

Because on repeal the lawsuit got overturned for being "pointless" since the lawsuit was overturned.

If it was upheld (and i believe it would of been) it would of set a legal precedent that would of been a bedrock precedent in pretty much any gay discrimination lawsuit.


I am not a big fan of grammar policing, but three 'would of's in one sentence?!?

On topic; I find your reasoning highly speculative.

How so? 

Because you are saying overturning a policy that was clearly anti gay weakens gay rights because in a supposed alternate set of events, that you yourself say you believe would probably happen, would potentially set a stronger pro-gay presidence. As you see, this is comparing the known outcome of improving gay rights to a supposed outcome that potentially could be better for gays (in your opinion).

Not only is the legal precedent you talk about purely speculative, no one knows what the outcome would be, but saying that a situation that patently imporved gay rights acctually hurt the same rights because of a potential unknown outcome is very speculative reasoning. It would be similar to telling someone who just won $2000 betting on horses that they lost money because you believe they would have won $6000 playing the roulette.

In the off chance that you were asking about the 'would of' comment, it's called "would have" or alternatively "would've" where your butchering of the spelling originats from.



Bong Lover said:
Kasz216 said:
Bong Lover said:
Kasz216 said:
Actually to be honest, the Repeal of don't ask don't tell HURT gay rights.

Because on repeal the lawsuit got overturned for being "pointless" since the lawsuit was overturned.

If it was upheld (and i believe it would of been) it would of set a legal precedent that would of been a bedrock precedent in pretty much any gay discrimination lawsuit.


I am not a big fan of grammar policing, but three 'would of's in one sentence?!?

On topic; I find your reasoning highly speculative.

How so? 

Because you are saying overturning a policy that was clearly anti gay weakens gay rights because in a supposed alternate set of events, that you yourself say you believe would probably happen, would potentially set a stronger pro-gay presidence. As you see, this is comparing the known outcome of improving gay rights to a supposed outcome that potentially could be better for gays (in your opinion).

Not only is the legal precedent you talk about purely speculative, no one knows what the outcome would be, but saying that a situation that patently imporved gay rights acctually hurt the same rights because of a potential unknown outcome is very speculative reasoning. It would be similar to telling someone who just won $2000 betting on horses that they lost money because you believe they would have won $6000 playing the roulette.

In the off chance that you were asking about the 'would of' comment, it's called "would have" or alternatively "would've" where your butchering of the spelling originats from.

Except the outcome already happened.

The Log Cabin Republicans WON their court case.  The legal precedent was already set, and then was later overturned only because Obama appealed and got rid of DADT before the appeal was heard.

Had he did neither of those things, precedent would of been set.

So no, it's more like saying someone would of won $6,000 had not someone else come in, took their winning sand dropped it down to $2000.



SamuelRSmith said:
TadpoleJackson said:

According to this, 26


Weren't these just the states that took this thing to the Supreme Court in the first place? Passing nullification would require so much more.

http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/nullification/health-care/


Sorry, meant to post this last night. That is a list of states that are either nullifying it, or at least, refusing some parts of it. As you can see our maps differ 



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Mr Khan said:
SamuelRSmith said:
TadpoleJackson said:

According to this, 26


Weren't these just the states that took this thing to the Supreme Court in the first place? Passing nullification would require so much more.

http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/nullification/health-care/

Nullification hasn't been a valid recourse of states since Andrew Jackson threatened John Calhoun and South Carolina with martial law over the matter. It was rightly closed then and hasn't really re-emerged.

Funny, though, that the states nullifying this represent some of the worst living/educational standards in the country. And of course, the great state of Pennsylvania with Tom "let's pull Mother Nature's panties down and rape her silly because there's natural gas to be had!" Corbett at the helm.


Except, that's not the case. There's been a huge upsurge in nullification in recent years. Like, the states nullifying the Federal Real ID law in 2007. That law is now effectively worthless.

Many places have started nullifying the controversial line of the NDAA. Interestingly, this is actually happening at local levels, with local Governments passing laws saying that the Feds can't do that shit in their city.

You also have the whole medical marijuana thing... let's see what happens after November when Colorado inevitably votes to completely legalise marijuana.



Powerful political lobbyists: big pharma, private medical insurance companies, conservative media and big business oppose universal medical treatment being available for all American citizens. Over turning Obamacare will essentially mean  America remains more than 50 years behind Europe and other developed nations that enjoy the benefits of universal health care. 



Dark_Lord_2008 said:

Powerful political lobbyists: big pharma, private medical insurance companies, conservative media and big business oppose universal medical treatment being available for all American citizens. Over turning Obamacare will essentially mean  America remains more than 50 years behind Europe and other developed nations that enjoy the benefits of universal health care. 


Big pharma and medical insurance companies lobbied for Obamacare. What does that tell you?



SamuelRSmith said:
Mr Khan said:
SamuelRSmith said:
TadpoleJackson said:

According to this, 26


Weren't these just the states that took this thing to the Supreme Court in the first place? Passing nullification would require so much more.

http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/nullification/health-care/

Nullification hasn't been a valid recourse of states since Andrew Jackson threatened John Calhoun and South Carolina with martial law over the matter. It was rightly closed then and hasn't really re-emerged.

Funny, though, that the states nullifying this represent some of the worst living/educational standards in the country. And of course, the great state of Pennsylvania with Tom "let's pull Mother Nature's panties down and rape her silly because there's natural gas to be had!" Corbett at the helm.


Except, that's not the case. There's been a huge upsurge in nullification in recent years. Like, the states nullifying the Federal Real ID law in 2007. That law is now effectively worthless.

Many places have started nullifying the controversial line of the NDAA. Interestingly, this is actually happening at local levels, with local Governments passing laws saying that the Feds can't do that shit in their city.

You also have the whole medical marijuana thing... let's see what happens after November when Colorado inevitably votes to completely legalise marijuana.

It doesn't work, because the FBI just comes in and raids the weed establishments. Same thing with the NDAA. If the government wants to do it, they'll do it. Nullification has no real effect except in cases where the government stops caring.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Mr Khan said:
SamuelRSmith said:
Mr Khan said:
SamuelRSmith said:
TadpoleJackson said:

According to this, 26


Weren't these just the states that took this thing to the Supreme Court in the first place? Passing nullification would require so much more.

http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/nullification/health-care/

Nullification hasn't been a valid recourse of states since Andrew Jackson threatened John Calhoun and South Carolina with martial law over the matter. It was rightly closed then and hasn't really re-emerged.

Funny, though, that the states nullifying this represent some of the worst living/educational standards in the country. And of course, the great state of Pennsylvania with Tom "let's pull Mother Nature's panties down and rape her silly because there's natural gas to be had!" Corbett at the helm.


Except, that's not the case. There's been a huge upsurge in nullification in recent years. Like, the states nullifying the Federal Real ID law in 2007. That law is now effectively worthless.

Many places have started nullifying the controversial line of the NDAA. Interestingly, this is actually happening at local levels, with local Governments passing laws saying that the Feds can't do that shit in their city.

You also have the whole medical marijuana thing... let's see what happens after November when Colorado inevitably votes to completely legalise marijuana.

It doesn't work, because the FBI just comes in and raids the weed establishments. Same thing with the NDAA. If the government wants to do it, they'll do it. Nullification has no real effect except in cases where the government stops caring.

All the medical marijauna states disagree with you. And it would be the DEA not the FBI who would raid them. Yes the Feds can strong arm the states by trying to with hold funding and basing funding on not having legalaized marijauna, but if they push to hard the states will push back eventually. I am hoping between helath care reform, drug reform laws, and our non secure southern border we have alot of states upset with the feds and already pushing back with various laws trying to take back some powers. In my opinon the federal government is really getting to big and too far reaching. Taking powers that dont belong to them, and purpesoly not enforcing ones that do. Sorry for tha rant.