... you do know Michael Moore is an "advocacy" filmaker.

In that none of his documetries actually tend tell the truth on anything right?

Of course his films are bias, but what documentary isn't?
That being said, my point about American Health care still stands.

Good ones aren't... and most of the ones that existed before Michael Moore.

Since the original point of documentries was to "document".

And no... your point about American healthcare doesn't stand... because "big companies" want universal healthcare..

The majority of American Healthcare is currently paid for by employers.

Many companies want ACA to be upheld so they can dump their employees into the public system that was created for people who get dumped from their employees plans due to ACA.  A LOT of comapnies showed support to Clinton when he tired healthcare.  (And failed, and the attempt was scapegoating on to hillary.)

Most Americans think their healthcare is great... because for most americans, their healthcare is great... there is a reason why the US is a world leader in people coming here for healthcare.  Including plenty of canadians.

The issue is how to improve it for the people who fall through the cracls.

Under Clinton, The Chamber of Comerce supported universal healthcare, and actually came up with the framework this bill was based on.

They only pulled support because they were attacked by the National Federation of Independent buisnesses which represented small buisnesses... and them being a gainst the plan led to smaller buisnesses abandoning the Chamber of Commerce to join the NFIB.

You see, smaller buisnessnesses more often then not don't have to provide healthcare, and the big companies pretty much being forced to gives small buisnesses an edge.

BIG companies WANT healthcare reform.

It's the small buisnesses that don't want it.

I'm going to get into an argument as to what makes a good documentary or not.
Most Americans think their health care is great because they have no basis of comparisons, and when someone like Michael Moore does claim your system is shit and makes a movie about it, although slightly extreme, your corrupt media and politicians mock it and call his film propaganda.

Edit: I never once said America should have a publicly funded health care system like Canada, but like you said. Fix the one you have noe cause it's shit. Look to the Swiss who have a much better system and fix your own. 

Wait... where did Switzerland come from?

Michael Moore would HATE a swiss style healthcare system.  If we ever seriously leaned that way he'd probably make a documentry forced on the "dark underseide" of the swiss healthcare system.

The Swiss system would be seen as an "extreme rightwing proposal" meant to destroy healthcare.

As evidenced by the fact that Bill O'Reily loves it.

There are numerous problems with trying to apply the Swiss system to the US.

1) You'd have to get rid of Medicare and Medicaid.  The Swiss system subsides the poor, but does so in a very "Paul Ryan" way of vouchers.  It would essentially face the same opposition privatisation of Social Security and the School Systems work. 

Well I shouldn't say it would.... so much as "It has" as that's exactly what happened.  Paul Ryan tried swiss style reformation of Medicare and Medicaid and was shut down for being an extreme right wing privitisation plan.

2) You'd have to get rid of corporate bought and paid for insurance.  Which is a big pride, espeically among union workers. 

3) Most people would pay more or atleast a higher percentage of the bill.  All Swiss healthcare plans are like the cheaper healthcare plans that exist.  Like the one I have.   Most people would be paying higher co-pays/shared cost for treatment.  This is one of the "cost controlling" measures.  They're mandated that people basically have to share a certain percentage of the costs. (but can get subsidides if they're poor enough, but still.)

Essentially the Democrats would see it as "Extreme Right Wing Privitisatin of Healthcare" while most Republicans would see it as "government intervening in the rest of the healthcare market."

...and yet their health care system is great. I'd know, I lived there, and there's plenty of data to back it up.

The ISSUE is your health care system in the states is terrible and needs to be fixed by either changing to a system like Canada, Norway, or Denmark who have a great system in place. Or Look to other countires that have a health care system in place like the one you Americans love (I.E switzerland) and learn from it. Michael Moore is not the issue and I dont understand why you're talking about him. I simply used the youtube clip as an example of a publicly funded system that works great and is superior to the American system. 

Canada is the way to go. It started only in a little area and was so successful it spread. This would be they way to go or just make it illegal to make a profit off of healtcare. However paul ryans plan is a joke, funny you bring that up. Those people would never be able to buy into a for profit with vouchers. Let's see what right wing proof he pulls up for this. I don't read your links because I see they are all usually biased funded by right wing or corporate interest.

Lets also not forget that if you just raise the SS tax. SS would be fine. After 110,000 dollars of pay you no longer pay in. Lift that cap problem solved. Just like I said before a lot of these problem didn't come into play until republican or corportists on the dems side throw a wrench in it and say, see it's broke, when they fucking broke it. The problem is we have social paths in the 1% that don't need to make more money but do so at everyone else's expense. Kaz you seem to stick up for this all the time.

Medicare part D. Why do tax payers have to pay store shelf price, when All others get discounts for buying in bulk. Bush did this.

Same with the post office, was working fine, Bush decides, hey lets make them pay 75 years of retirement for people not even working there in 10 years. They go in brake the system, then use this to say this is why we should privatise. You don't need to privatise, put it back the way it was and leave the f'ing goverment jobs alone that pay people what they are worth. once you privatise people make sh-t and the ceo's and top 1% run away with all the money.

How about taking laws that carter got rid of.Now Allowing CEO's to make bonus's off the stock market, when before carter, this didn't happen. This has CEO's working for there share holders rather then there employee's. Also the ceo choose the people who give them there raise's. there are so many problems in the top it's a joke but yet people seem to want to blame it all on the poor and the programs the rich fucked up. That allow them to make more profits and cheapen costs on them for everything. Yet you got people on the right running around blaming there friends and family for the problems created by the bush/clinton administation and the corporatists. This whole mess was from deregulation under clinton  and bush, plus the wars and lower tax's in a time of war. I actually will go even further then that, this all started under carter, then really progressed under reagan, then just continued no matter who got into office. The rich are the problem people< wake up. You are falling for the tricks. They tell you to look at the veteran barely getting by and there robbing your wallet while your getting pist at the wrong person.

To answer your question about why to get money out of politics. It's simple, Because when you cap what corporations can give, the politician has to prove he's good to a number of people, not just the koch brothers or massive corporations that are out to destroy things that cost them money. Like minimum wage, overtime, UNIONS  and many of the things that allow the middle class to have a fighting chance to even stand up for what is right. The other guy on the other page. you said corporations should regulate them selfs. WOW!!!! Ok then no regulation, corporations don't regulate them selfs. if this was to happen everyone breaths in sh-t, everyone has cancer, horrible working conditions, kids working at age 3 and the list goes on. No good drink water because we destroyed all of it. Regulation is good most of the time and sometimes over reach's.

Every time I see you use  links, it's these same guys, over and over and over and over. vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

I think I will move to canada so I can be one of the guys that moved me say Americans are fucking stupid, They are and now I fully agree.

He does this all the time. He goes with a non-issue and then makes it a issue that actually has nothing to do with the original issue and then some how seems to think he proved a point. This is why people get fed up with he's reasoning. He twists everything into his favor and then goes on to use extreme biased links him self to prove his points. I worked in canada all the time and the living up there is way better then down here and yet he still wants to tell me how bad it is. I have actually been there. WHy? because people that moved to the US from Canada usually all move back. It is always the same reason, US greed, Healthcare is a mess.

I used to be a mover.

bill o reilly  makes Micheal moore look like a saint. LOL FOX news he uses. Then condemns you.  LOl now I know WHy he has these views. Actually have always known. This is also where he finds his non biased links. They most likely are off links to the fox news sites. Then he goes, it's not fox news at all.

I am seriously thinking to move to canada if we can't get all the corporatist out of our government, I'm talking about both sides too. See I don't shell for these guys, I know the dems are f'ed up but I can say they are a lesser evil then the republicans and until the third party can get it together, I will not hand it to the Republicans to do what they did under bush only on steroids. Everyone should pay attention because if this happens again, the whole world will feel it, just like it did before.  Goldman sachs and his buddy's will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Read the editorial I posted above. In the documentary SiCKO, for example, Michael Moore uses the British/French/Canadian systems to demonstrate relatively routine prodedures (if I recall, when talking about the UK, he used the maternal wards), and the American system to demonstrate extreme/breaking-edge/experimental/expensive/risky procedures (I remember him talking about some man who had a cancer of some kind, and a small child who wanted break-neck technology to aid in hearing).

An equally scrupulous person could go film maternal wards in the US, and cancer treatment in the UK, and create the exact same documentary with the complete reverse point.

It's callled... context.  It can be your friend.

I used Bill O'Reily as an example as for why the Swiss Healthcare plan wouldn't work here because it would be seen as an extreme right wing plan, because the only people who like it are people on fox news and economists.  Bill O'Reily was agreeing with HIS position not mine.

If you read my above post, which seems exceedingly unlikely, or new anything about the Swiss Healthcare system i'm pretty sure you'd agree with me.   The Swiss Healthcare sysetm is essentially what Paul Ryan would proposed to do Medicare and Medicaid... and is what his Unviersal healthcare plan is like.

If you like the Paul Ryan plan to healthcare though... my mistake.  We can be like the swiss and rip away middle class healthcare, instead of $25 copays they everbody could pay half the doctors visists until it got to 10% of there income.  Instead of the poor getting free healthcare, we can make it so they have to pay 10% of their income towards healthcare like the US plan too.   I guess maybe i'm wrong in saying that would be "too rightwing" considering how vigorusly your defending the plan!

And I don't believe I've ever linked to fox news...(outside this) more often then not I try to link to websites that go the otherway like the huffington post to make the point just so people don't claim bias.

All your biased BS can get annoying, I mean, your calling me "Too right wing" for point out that a plan is "too right wing" to succeed in this country.  How does that work?  Those things like getting rid of Medicare, Medicaid and Employer insurance coverage aren't my ideas.  They're core fundamental legislated features of the Swiss healthcare plan, along with making people pay more for everyday healthcare visits.

Also... as for all your blaming on Bush.  Weren't you the guy who just yelled at someone blaming something on Obama by saying laws and taxes aren't a President's fault because congress are the ones who make the laws?  Guess that's only democratic presidents.