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Forums - Politics - Cut the taxes of rich conservatives, and raise them on all liberals. Problem solved!

richardhutnik said:
theprof00 said:
You have it backwards rich.
Liberal poor will pay less, liberal rich will pay more.

Conservative poor and middle will pay more, conservative rich will pay less.


I for one am totally in support of party-based taxing. Something like, you register as a democrat, your vote automatically goes to the democratic candidate, you pay the democrat taxes. Takes two years to switch around your alignment.

The proposal is what the proposal is.  That proposal is that rich conservatives get their taxes cut.  Middle and lower class conservatives keep their taxes where they are.  Anyone who is liberal has their taxes raised.

The added feature of getting benefits or not can be added.


I'm confused though. Where are you getting these aspects from?

Liberals favor the middle class, meaning rich taxed more middle and poor taxed less.
Conservatives favor the upper class (job creators), meaning middle and poor pay the same or more, upper pays less.

Just curious.



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theprof00 said:
richardhutnik said:
theprof00 said:
You have it backwards rich.
Liberal poor will pay less, liberal rich will pay more.

Conservative poor and middle will pay more, conservative rich will pay less.


I for one am totally in support of party-based taxing. Something like, you register as a democrat, your vote automatically goes to the democratic candidate, you pay the democrat taxes. Takes two years to switch around your alignment.

The proposal is what the proposal is.  That proposal is that rich conservatives get their taxes cut.  Middle and lower class conservatives keep their taxes where they are.  Anyone who is liberal has their taxes raised.

The added feature of getting benefits or not can be added.


I'm confused though. Where are you getting these aspects from?

Liberals favor the middle class, meaning rich taxed more middle and poor taxed less.
Conservatives favor the upper class (job creators), meaning middle and poor pay the same or more, upper pays less.

Just curious.

Just going with the logic of what the political sides are calling for and holding them to what they want.  I am going further than the "pay it if you want to" by making it so it happens, based upon political views.  The ideas of liberals paying more taxes means that you make all them pay more, because they like tax increases.  Because conservatives don't like this, and want the rich to get the tax cuts, you end up cutting taxes on the upper end and hold it flat to everyone else.  This hold it flat to everyone else is a compromise, to reward them for wanting to slash taxes on the upper end.  Since they believe it so much, there is no reason to have middle and lower tax conservative get tax cuts, because they support them for the rich, irregardless if they get any themselves.



cusman said:

I have even better idea

Conservatives can pay less and will not be eligible to receive social services that they feel are not governments function to provide
Liberals can pay more and be eligible to receive social services they think government should provide

Oh and let people including liberals choose whether their service provider is government or private.

Free market wins :)

Please illuminate a bit more here.  I think you address the free rider problem that comes up.  Please explain further how the free rider problem is dealt with.

By the way, I believe also you need to make sure hospital emergency rooms are off-limits to people who don't want the government to do anything, and also don't pay for the services, because laws mandate emergency rooms take anyone it.  They should have the right to turn away anyone they choose, like any other business, right?



richardhutnik said:
theprof00 said:
richardhutnik said:
theprof00 said:
You have it backwards rich.
Liberal poor will pay less, liberal rich will pay more.

Conservative poor and middle will pay more, conservative rich will pay less.


I for one am totally in support of party-based taxing. Something like, you register as a democrat, your vote automatically goes to the democratic candidate, you pay the democrat taxes. Takes two years to switch around your alignment.

The proposal is what the proposal is.  That proposal is that rich conservatives get their taxes cut.  Middle and lower class conservatives keep their taxes where they are.  Anyone who is liberal has their taxes raised.

The added feature of getting benefits or not can be added.


I'm confused though. Where are you getting these aspects from?

Liberals favor the middle class, meaning rich taxed more middle and poor taxed less.
Conservatives favor the upper class (job creators), meaning middle and poor pay the same or more, upper pays less.

Just curious.

Just going with the logic of what the political sides are calling for and holding them to what they want.  I am going further than the "pay it if you want to" by making it so it happens, based upon political views.  The ideas of liberals paying more taxes means that you make all them pay more, because they like tax increases.  Because conservatives don't like this, and want the rich to get the tax cuts, you end up cutting taxes on the upper end and hold it flat to everyone else.  This hold it flat to everyone else is a compromise, to reward them for wanting to slash taxes on the upper end.  Since they believe it so much, there is no reason to have middle and lower tax conservative get tax cuts, because they support them for the rich, irregardless if they get any themselves.

I thought liberals only really supported tax increases on the rich and upper middle class (ie; over 250k/yr), and tax breaks for everyone else? If not, why do I keep getting stimulus checks and tax breaks??



klumminati said:
He is a simple solution...have every one pay the same rate. Like in Europe. A speeding ticket based off of my income will be about $100. Depending on how rich I am that same speeding ticket would cost me 1000 to 1 Million. If I am a billionaire a $100 dollar ticket would not deter me. So, it is fair.

No, that isn't fair.  Why, because person A makes more than person B, should person A have to pay $1 million each time they speed versus person B only having to pay $100 each time they speed?  Person A and person B committed the exact same crime, so they should be punished the exact same amount.



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This is daft, most people do not care enough about politics and would simply switch who they vote for to get the best deal.



Aielyn said:
thranx said:

So he only cares to force others to do so? Why not just donate the 15% of his income instead of trying to force others to do so. If he truely believed the US government was the best spot for welfare he should step up and donate to it. No "strings" attached, this is charity we're talking about, not bl;ackmailing others to do what you won't. He should lead by example.

Who said anything about charity? Welfare is not charity. That you would refer to it as such shows me that you're rather ignorant of the purpose of welfare.

Warren Buffet is trying to make a point. Nothing wrong with that. He's actively calling for his taxes to be raised. In the meantime, when Congress start claiming all sorts of things against him, he sets them a challenge - he'll put up, if they do. It's part of a series of political movements to try to get things fixed. First he came up with the "Buffet Rule", regarding taxes for the rich. You know what the Republicans did? They made a bill, called the Buffet Rule Act, that put a checkbox on IRS forms allowing people to more easily donate money to the government. So he said "well then, I'll put up if you do", and challenged the Republicans to put up the money themselves. And when Republicans complained that Democrats weren't included, he expanded it to include Democrats.

But more than that - what point is just giving more money to the government, if the government is currently deadlocked by a party that is dead-set against any welfare spending, dead-set against any tax increases for the rich (not nearly as worried if it's for the poor, though), and dead-set against anything a liberal does? What Buffet is trying to do is to change the system. You think that a few uber-rich liberals giving a billion dollars each will make much of a dent in the debt? You think that Buffet giving a large amount of money to the government would actually inspire the Murdochs of the world to do likewise? If you honestly believe that "he should leave by example" makes sense, then you're less intelligent than I though.

Government works by everyone doing their part. That's how SOCIETY works. Conservatives seem hell-bent on destroying society by turning the system into an "every man for himself" arrangement. And demanding that liberals act independently even as conservatives do everything they can to sabotage the system is just ludicrous.

the thing is, republicans dont think the goverment needs more money, they dont want to raise taxes. Warren Buffet does, so his little childish wager is completely nonsensicle. i

if warren bufffet wants higher taxes, he should pay it, instead he actually had millions in unpaid taxes to the IRS, which he has paid his lawyers and accountants to help him not pay. this is the constant hypocrasy of the left, they speak big and talk big, but when it comes to themselves, it doesnt apply. do as I say, not as I do.



richardhutnik said:
thranx said:
Aielyn said:
thranx said:
If people think that the government is so great at welfare and want to have more of it, they can always choose to give more to the government. For all the people that want to raise taxes why don't they take the initiative and do just that? It would really show that they believe in the government. Have jon stewart or warren buffet donated any money to the government yet? how much of their income did they donate? how much have other liberals donated? Or do they donate to a charity that is better at welfare than the government?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/9034015/Warren-Buffett-pledges-15pc-of-income-to-US-if-10pc-of-Congress-does-too.html


So he only cares to force others to do so? Why not just donate the 15% of his income instead of trying to force others to do so. If he truely believed the US government was the best spot for welfare he should step up and donate to it. No "strings" attached, this is charity we're talking about, not bl;ackmailing others to do what you won't. He should lead by example.

Idea is to effectively address a common problem.  Idea isn't to score some sort of "I am consistent" points on a mythical scoreboard you have in your head, that you could care less if they actually do it.  You only bring up, "well if they like it so much, they should do it!" argument, because you want to try to end an argument by showing they are inconsistent.  There are things in life where, if insufficient numbers participate, it will fail.  So, why should they contribute more, if it doesn't resolve the issue?

If you want to go with something more useful, look at my original proposal.  Have all those who want to see taxes on the rich, have their tax rates raised (aka, liberals) and have those who want to have the tax rates on rich reduced, lowered.  It is the same thing as what you want, but would actually make a difference.  Well, maybe it is a bit too "collective" to you.  Apparently, the idea of more than one individual doing the same thing at the same time is a concept you probably have a hard time grasping.  Life isn't just a bunch of autonomous individuals working in an uncoordinated manner, doing whatever their whims desire.


but about half our country is liberal/democrat/socialist/ or left leaning. and most/all speak of how the want higher taxes, so if they all practiced what they preached, then there should be a sufficient number of participants.



supermario128 said:

The FairTaxSM Plan

Your money, your decision

The current federal income tax system is clearly broken -- unfair, overly complex, and almost impossible for most Americans to understand. But there is a reasonable, bipartisan alternative that is both fair and easy to understand. A system that allows you to keep your whole paycheck and only pay taxes on what you spend.

The FairTax is a national sales tax that treats every person equally and allows American businesses to thrive, while generating the same tax revenue as the current three-million-word-plus word tax code. Under the FairTax, every person living in the United States pays a 23% national sales tax on purchases of new goods and services. This rate is equal to the lowest current income tax bracket (15%) combined with employee payroll taxes (7.65%), both of which will be eliminated.

--------------------

I realize that 23% sales tax might sound outrageous to some, but this really is a great solution. Get rid of all other taxes except for taxes on new goods and services. You keep all the money you make and don't have to pay taxes unless you spend it on something you want. The rich don't get out of this because if they buy a million dollar car or 5 million dollar house they still have to pay 23% sales tax. It is fair because the rate is the same for everyone and it rewards people for saving their money.


This says WAY more about the American people than the system.  Our tax system is very simple to understand, particularly for most people's situation:

1. Take what you made in income
2. Subtract your deductions
3. Look up your tax on that value
4. Subtract your credits

Done.  If you want to get into more specifics on 4 (thoug most people just look on a table):

1.)Find out your marginal tax bracket
2.) For that bracket and each below it, tax the relevant income the appropriate amount

Done.

A national sales tax is a HIGHLY regressive tax.  You are talking about a massive tax increase on the poor funding a massive tax cut for the rich.  Consider a person who must spend all of their money on their living expenses.  Their effective tax rate is 23%!

Also, I am not sure how "taxing what you spend" is any more fair than "taxing what you earn"



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Kasz216 said:
klumminati said:
He is a simple solution...have every one pay the same rate. Like in Europe. A speeding ticket based off of my income will be about $100. Depending on how rich I am that same speeding ticket would cost me 1000 to 1 Million. If I am a billionaire a $100 dollar ticket would not deter me. So, it is fair.


Uh... Europe doesn't have a flat tax system....

it has a progressive system.

Like the US.


Depends on the country. Estonia, Russia, Ukraine, Serbia all have flat taxes (plus others).