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Forums - Politics - Is Mormonism a Cult?

 

Is Mormonism a Cult?

Yes, Mormonism is a dangerous cult! 42 38.18%
 
Yes, Mormonism is a cult,... 32 29.09%
 
No, Mormonism is not a Cu... 30 27.27%
 
I don't know. 4 3.64%
 
Total:108
Aielyn said:
EdHieron said:

Would a church that was strongly against Nazism elect a former Hitler Youth to its top position, and as Hitchens says in the video I posted the Vatican was silent during Hitler's final solution.

The church now isn't the same as the church of the time... but more importantly, as it points out on wikipedia, membership in the hitler youth was required by law for all 14 year old german boys. In other words, it was mandatory, and you're basically saying that no german male who turned 14 during WWII can be considered anything but a Nazi.

As for "Hitchens", I wouldn't consider what an active atheist (meaning, one that is fighting to end religion) says about the Vatican to necessarily be accurate. Indeed, Hitchens is likely referring to what was described in a book called "Hitler's Pope". It's the main source of the claim that Pope Pius XII said nothing against Hitler's actions. But other sources claim quite the opposite, that he was very much opposed to it, and vocally so. Now, I'm not certain either way, but I'm more inclined to tend towards the Pope vocally opposing it, if only because if he had done otherwise, he would have well and truly brought the catholic church into disrepute at the time as a result.

Here's a catholic website article about a book countering Hitler's Pope. I'm not saying it's true, but it's always best to hear both sides of the argument before making a declaration about what you believe to be the truth, and the article seems reasonable and well-written, from what I gleaned from a skim through.

I should note, in case it isn't clear from what I've said before, that I'm very much an atheist. I just like setting facts straight, or pointing out weaknesses in arguments.


One can't accept anything from a Catholic website on the matter as being an unbiased source as it would no doubt be serving as apologetics.



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EdHieron said:

One can't accept anything from a Catholic website on the matter as being an unbiased source as it would no doubt be serving as apologetics.

But it's OK to accept something from Hitchens, despite the fact that he is clearly also not unbiased and also no doubt aiming to condemn the church?

Would you like a Jewish source, perhaps? Surely a Jewish source would be much more likely to be unbiased in this matter?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Hitler's_Pope

Written by a Rabbi. Is that good enough?



Aielyn said:
EdHieron said:

One can't accept anything from a Catholic website on the matter as being an unbiased source as it would no doubt be serving as apologetics.

But it's OK to accept something from Hitchens, despite the fact that he is clearly also not unbiased and also no doubt aiming to condemn the church?

Would you like a Jewish source, perhaps? Surely a Jewish source would be much more likely to be unbiased in this matter?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Hitler's_Pope

Written by a Rabbi. Is that good enough?

 

Apparently Pope John Paul II thought that either the Catholics were responsible for or that they didn't do enough to stop the Holocaust as he issued an apology for it in 2000, and one Rabbi may have written the article you linked to; however, many others held Pope Pius XII responsible ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Remember:_A_Reflection_on_the_Shoah and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_Nazi_Germany ).  However, it is true that most Mega Cults like the Catholic Church do have a knack for doing just enough to cover their rears in certain situations while maintaining quite contrary policies behind closed doors.



Yes, it is a cult.



Ask stefl1504 for a sig, even if you don't need one.

Well it looks like the overwhelming consensus ~68% (a little over 37% think it is a dangerous cult, close to 31% think it is a cult but not a dangerous one, close to 28% think it's not a cult, and 4% weren't sure) is that Mormonism is a cult.

In my personal opinion, I don't think that America needs a cult member and in particular one that donates at least 4 million dollars a year to his cult as President because that most likely would lead to his cult having an undue influence in American politics in a country which is supposed to be founded on the principles of separation of church and state and individual liberty.

Some people pointed out that other people shouldn't refer to members of a cult as members of a cult as that might offend cult members. One can hope that if it offends cult members that the offense will help them reach the decision to leave the cult.



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EdHieron said:
In my personal opinion, I don't think that America needs a cult member and in particular one that donates at least 4 million dollars a year to his cult as President because that most likely would lead to his cult having an undue influence in American politics in a country which is supposed to be founded on the principles of separation of church and state and individual liberty.

I can apply the exact same reasoning to almost every president America has ever had. After all, every denomination of Christianity is a cult, and almost every president has, at the least, claimed to be christian.

Let's admit it - the church (indeed, religion in general) has undue influence in American politics as it is.



Aielyn said:
EdHieron said:
In my personal opinion, I don't think that America needs a cult member and in particular one that donates at least 4 million dollars a year to his cult as President because that most likely would lead to his cult having an undue influence in American politics in a country which is supposed to be founded on the principles of separation of church and state and individual liberty.

I can apply the exact same reasoning to almost every president America has ever had. After all, every denomination of Christianity is a cult, and almost every president has, at the least, claimed to be christian.

Let's admit it - the church (indeed, religion in general) has undue influence in American politics as it is.

That's true religion has an undue influence in America as it is.  To paraphrase the styxhexenhammer666 video I posted earlier and that is a further reason why we don't need the most dangerous cult in this hemisphere to gain even more control of the political process. 



EdHieron said:
To paraphrase the styxhexenhammer666 video I posted earlier and that is a further reason why we don't need the most dangerous cult in this hemisphere to gain even more control of the political process. 

It's no more dangerous than any of the others. Note that I didn't vote in the poll, because there was no option suiting my position.



Aielyn said:
EdHieron said:
To paraphrase the styxhexenhammer666 video I posted earlier and that is a further reason why we don't need the most dangerous cult in this hemisphere to gain even more control of the political process. 

It's no more dangerous than any of the others. Note that I didn't vote in the poll, because there was no option suiting my position.

 

It is certainly more dangerous than other ones.  It's been the guiding principle of the Mormon Church since the days of Joseph Smith and Bringham Young to become powerful enough to overthrow the United States of America and set up a Mormon Theocracy.  And, they've worked diligently towards this goal ever since first by instituting polygamy to swell their numbers so that they would have a sizeable population which is the core idea that they took from The Old Testament, then by aqcuiring their own state that they murdered other people in cold blood (  

 

 

 

to keep them out of, then doing away with polygamy for the sole reason that they couldn't become a state if they kept it

 

( although many members of the LDS hopes that it comes back some day and as pointed out in John Krakauer's book Under "The Banner of Heaven:  The Story of a Violent Faith"  

 

 

(     http://www.amazon.com/Under-Banner-Heaven-Story-Violent/dp/1400032806/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340461022&sr=8-1&keywords=under+the+banner+of+heaven )  members of the FLDS church still practice polygamy in Utah and many times when District Attornies go after them for it, they're not re-elected to their next terms ); to the expansionist campaign that they practice today wherein they try to present a "Leave it to Beaver" image of Americana and Harmlessness to the outside world while at the same time they fire any professor at BYU that seeks to reveal elements of Mormon faith and history to other members of the church and the general public at large.  Plus unlike every other church in America, the Mormon faith has a long history of keeping tabs of the most minute elements of the lives of Mormons and Ex Mormons as Cult Researcher Richard Abanes points out in his book "One Nation Under Gods:  A History of the Mormon Church"  

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/One-Nation-Under-Gods-History/dp/1568582838/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1340461373&sr=1-1&keywords=one+nation+under+gods ).

 

As Styxhexenhammer points out in his video on Mormonism

 

  

 

Mormonism is the most dangerous religious cult in the United States both due to its wealth and because most of its members are Fundamentalistly inclined whereas many members in other denominations have liberalized to a degree.

 

It remains the goal of Mormonism to use its influence politically and financially to guide events in America to a fulfillment of Joseph Smith's White Horse

Prophecy (

 

 

so that the Government of the United States becomes a Mormon Theocracy.

 

No less of an authority than the Yale Professor of Literature and Religious Studies Harold Bloom said in his book "The American Religion"

 

  

 

http://www.amazon.com/The-American-Religion-Emergence-Post-Christian/dp/0671867377/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340463151&sr=8-1&keywords=the+american+religion )

 

from the mid 1990s, "I tremble with fear for the day when a Mormon may become the President of the United States," and more recently about Mitt Romney, " A Romney Presidency would mean a strengthening of theocracy in America."



EdHieron said:
Kasz216 said:
EdHieron said:
Kasz216 said:
No more so then say baptists... and i mean honestly... you could only wish that most religious groups did as much good as the mormon church.

They do a LOT of good, are one of the more active charitable christian groups out there... and seem honestly to generally be a lot more positive and generally nice then people on average.

So even if they were a cult, good for them. We'd probably be better off if there were more Mormons out there.


I wouldn't exactly say that the Mountain Meadows Massacre was a good thing ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre ), and I'm not sure if there's anything analogous to it in Baptist history.


Well... the inquistion.  Since they branched off from catholics after that.

I mean... seriously... 1857?

John Krakauer in his book "Under the Banner of Heaven:  A Story of Violent Faith" (2004) (    http://www.amazon.com/Under-Banner-Heaven-Story-Violent/dp/1400032806/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340025661&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=john+krakouer )   covers more recent attrocities committed by Mormons.


Yeah, that book doesnt talk about the lds religion, it talks about the flds, a completely separate religion that broke off from the main lds church back in the 1800s, the two religions are incredibly different.