IIIIITHE1IIIII said: But why would anyone who truly believes in God ask for things? Why not just say: "God, you know me better than I do. If I deserve more money, then give it to me. If I don't deserve more money, then don't give me more money. I fully trust you to make the right choice. My opinion is worthless compared to yours."?

Sometimes, you only truly deserve help if you respectfully ask God for help. Following your example, there are two scenarios: A.) The person does deserve the money. Or B.) the person doesn't. The person doesn't need to acknowledge B, because if there would be no outcome if that were true.

People pray with A in mind. Of course they don't know if they deserve the money. But in case they do, they still must humbly ask God for the money. That's where prayer comes in.

And as I said earlier. Prayer is mainly used for worship & praise more than asking for things.

IIIIITHE1IIIII said: MegaDrive08 said: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoVXf91fx68&nomobile=1 What about this then ;) Dammit. It's not available in my country :/ Got another version?

Just search in YouTube it crowd spacestar ordering

Jay520 said: IIIIITHE1IIIII said: But why would anyone who truly believes in God ask for things? Why not just say: "God, you know me better than I do. If I deserve more money, then give it to me. If I don't deserve more money, then don't give me more money. I fully trust you to make the right choice. My opinion is worthless compared to yours."? Sometimes, you only truly deserve help if you respectfully ask God for help. Following your example, there are two scenarios: A.) The person does deserve the money. Or B.) the person doesn't. The person doesn't need to acknowledge B, because if there would be no outcome if that were true. People pray with A in mind. Of course they don't know if they deserve the money. But in case they do, they still must humbly ask God for the money. That's where prayer comes in. And as I said earlier. Prayer is mainly used for worship & praise more than asking for things.

Then tell me this: What is the bolded, if not the most humble prayer possible? It is for worship and praise, and it is superior to all possible prayers that one may think of, since your opinion is inferior to God's. God knows what is best for you, and one may not interrupt His 'mysterious ways'.

IIIIITHE1IIIII said: Jay520 said: IIIIITHE1IIIII said: But why would anyone who truly believes in God ask for things? Why not just say: "God, you know me better than I do. If I deserve more money, then give it to me. If I don't deserve more money, then don't give me more money. I fully trust you to make the right choice. My opinion is worthless compared to yours."? Sometimes, you only truly deserve help if you respectfully ask God for help. Following your example, there are two scenarios: A.) The person does deserve the money. Or B.) the person doesn't. The person doesn't need to acknowledge B, because if there would be no outcome if that were true. People pray with A in mind. Of course they don't know if they deserve the money. But in case they do, they still must humbly ask God for the money. That's where prayer comes in. And as I said earlier. Prayer is mainly used for worship & praise more than asking for things. Then tell me this: What is the bolded, if not the most humble prayer possible? It is for worship and praise, and it is superior to all possible prayers that one may think of, since your opinion is inferior to God's. God knows what is best for you, and one may not interrupt His 'mysterious ways'.

The bolded is not a humble request, it's a demand. It's saying "if I deserve it, give it to me". Much different than "if I deserve it, then may you give it to me?" One is a question. One is a statement.

And you still haven't challenged the idea of prayer being used as a form of worship. I assume, you accept this idea as making sense? In which case, I kindly ask you to edit your title to a more appropriate choice of words.

Jay520 said: IIIIITHE1IIIII said: Then tell me this: What is the bolded, if not the most humble prayer possible? It is for worship and praise, and it is superior to all possible prayers that one may think of, since your opinion is inferior to God's. God knows what is best for you, and one may not interrupt His 'mysterious ways'. The bolded is not a humble request, it's a demand. It's saying "if I deserve it, give it to me". Much different than "if I deserve it, then may you give it to me?" One is a question. One is a statement.

 

Yes, it is completely humble as it suggests that God's opinion is flawless. And on top of that, it wouldn't make any sense to ask God to act against His own opinion, or for God to act against it...

Kantor summed it up pretty perfectly.

I am reminded of James chapters 1 and 2:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+1-2&version=NIV

In that is a quote of true religion between keeping oneself morally pure and looking after widows and orphans in their time of distress. Also there is about uselessness of faith that doesn't have any works. There are others also on how it needs to be.

Too often, in American religion at least, things consist of people who have their lives together, and go to religion to actually serve on the margins. As someone in the gaps at this point, I see how little people actually do anything. Helping the poor is for their own benefit (not sure this is in keeping with what Jesus had in mind) to make them feel good. And there is the whole tooting of the horn on how conservatives are better because they give more to charity. Again, it is "who is more righteous" BS.

Jay520 said: And you still haven't challenged the idea of prayer being used as a form of worship. I assume, you accept this idea as making sense? In which case, I kindly ask you to edit your title to a more appropriate choice of words.

No, it does not make sense to worship God by asking Him to act in a certain way.

The title stays.

IIIIITHE1IIIII said: Jay520 said: IIIIITHE1IIIII said: Then tell me this: What is the bolded, if not the most humble prayer possible? It is for worship and praise, and it is superior to all possible prayers that one may think of, since your opinion is inferior to God's. God knows what is best for you, and one may not interrupt His 'mysterious ways'. The bolded is not a humble request, it's a demand. It's saying "if I deserve it, give it to me". Much different than "if I deserve it, then may you give it to me?" One is a question. One is a statement.   Yes, it is completely humble as it suggests that God's opinion is flawless. And on top of that, it wouldn't make any sense to ask God to act against His own opinion, or for God to act against it...

To be honest, you really are arguing meaningless details. A person ask for something, with the hope that they deserve it. Or they can just tell God to make the correct choice. I don't think it matters, after I thought about it.