Kasz216 said: epinefridis said: I Choose Πελλα (Pela), the Capital of the Macedonian Empire. Anyway Athens is really polluted and Sparta? Uhmmm, nope! (ειναι κανεις Ελληνας ρε παιδες? Μονο τον Akira ξερω. Tι ακυρο thread ειναι αυτο?) The Macedonians weren't even really greeks. The archelogy and ancetdotal historical evidence of the time points to them being of a different ethinic group. I'd go with Athens of the two, as Spartans culture was rather... well spartan. There is a reason why one who buys nothing unessential and does nothing for pleasure is called living a spartan lifestyle.

The history of Macedonia dates far back, from ancient to modern Greece. It began with the Kingdom of Macedonia, (reorganised by Philip II), through the empire of Alexander the Great, continuing within the Roman and Byzantine empires, the domination of the Ottomans (from 14th century until 1912) and the Balkan Wars. You just dont know nothing about ethinic groups and Macedonia. Macedonia was a Hellenic Capital of the ancient Greek(Hellas). It's geografical position is in northen Greece(Hellas) and has three regions Central,East,West Macedonia. The majority of 93% of the population is Hellinic(Greeks). So everything else you say they just don't sustain scientifically. The rest you can read it on Wikipedia  for more serious scientific explanations and not anecdotal mumbo jumbo some others claim to say.

 

Athens-much more freedom then Sparta. Though every man in Sparta was a badass.

AkiraGr said: Kasz216 said: epinefridis said: I Choose Πελλα (Pela), the Capital of the Macedonian Empire. Anyway Athens is really polluted and Sparta? Uhmmm, nope! (ειναι κανεις Ελληνας ρε παιδες? Μονο τον Akira ξερω. Tι ακυρο thread ειναι αυτο?) The Macedonians weren't even really greeks. The archelogy and ancetdotal historical evidence of the time points to them being of a different ethinic group. I'd go with Athens of the two, as Spartans culture was rather... well spartan. There is a reason why one who buys nothing unessential and does nothing for pleasure is called living a spartan lifestyle. The history of Macedonia dates far back, from ancient to modern Greece. It began with the Kingdom of Macedonia, (reorganised by Philip II), through the empire of Alexander the Great, continuing within the Roman and Byzantine empires, the domination of the Ottomans (from 14th century until 1912) and the Balkan Wars. You just dont know nothing about ethinic groups and Macedonia. Macedonia was a Hellenic Capital of the ancient Greek(Hellas). It's geografical position is in northen Greece(Hellas) and has three regions Central,East,West Macedonia. The majority of 93% of the population is Hellinic(Greeks). So everything else you say they just don't sustain scientifically. The rest you can read it on Wikipedia for more serious scientific explanations and not anecdotal mumbo jumbo some others claim to say.

Those the ancient Macedonians conquered did not see the Macedonians as greeks like them, and the macedonians likewise saw the greeks as foreign.

Alexander the Great's empire was not a greek empire. Those macedonians were not a greek tribe.

The only reasons the modern greeks claim it is are political reasons. At this point, that area is greek... whether or not it should be doesn't matter to me. Historical accuracy however does.

Alexanders Empire, and the Macedonians that lived in Macedonia before Alexanders Empire were not greeks.

There are many mentions in antiquity that talk of "Both Greeks and Macedonians". Or someone being "Half Greek and Half Macedonian"

I find it silly that such a conflict leads to the historical inaccuracy it does. Why should the borders of ancient past even effect modern borders?

On what grounds do you argue that the Ancient Macedonian Empire and the Greeks were the same people when both groups saw each other as different?

Alexander was known as a "philhellene" wasn't he?  This is a name that could not be given to a Greek.

I love 300, but it's a romantic look at a brutal civilization.  Athens for the win.

Spartan - more adventurous and interesting life. Plus i'd be badass.

In what history books say that things and what scientefic fact you have about this allegations. I just gave you a source of the scientific facts that Macedonian where Hellinic tribe. The political system in Greece at the time was the state/country wich means that every state was an autonomus regim in every part of Greece. But The common language,the same relligion and the same cultural effects was the same in all of country/state regims that was the common parts that made the Hellinic tribe the same in all of parts of Greece. Believe me i know i am Greek and i know my historical heritage even i know my language and the ancient scripts that proves what i am saying like Thoukididis Historical book that was written during Xherxis persian wars against Greece. Like Lykourgos manuscripts another historian in the classical era of Periklis in 6 century before Christ. Even so from even biological history the Greeks was the first that established in the Greeks region on 12000 B.C as the Mikinians. There is no political issue here is just HISTORIC FACTS. This bullshit of allegation that your are saying are not scientific facts but Former Yuguslavian State Propaganda that wish to claim a page in history because they have none so they can explain their existance as a nation. The scientific facts that we have are all over our ancient civilisation Ancient Greek, Roman, Byzantine, Neo-Greek. All the things you say can not be proved by scientif facts that we have and all the world accept that. Is just a fact that Macedonia and the Macedonian are greeks as Spartans,Athenians,Thivinians and all the Greek tribes that inhabit Greece since 12000 B.C.

Arrian, Plutarch and Herodotus all saw Macedonian as a distinctivly non-greek entity.  Find me historians who are greater experts on ancient greek history.

That's basically all the proof that's needed.

There is no proof that the Macedonian's language is greek. There is not enough of it surviving to make that detirmination. However there is evidence that greeks needed translators to give orders to macedonians during battle.

Also whether you are a greek or not is not the issue. You obviously are greek. As Macedonia is currently a part of greece.

The ancient Macedonians however were not. They were not treated as fellow greeks by the ancient greeks, nor were they treaty as greeks by the romans.

At THAT time period, the macedonians were not greeks. Those people were not greeks.

What was true thousands of years ago has no bearing on your heritage now as many things have changed since then, so don't take it as an attack like that, as I have no political motivations.

Whether or not macedonians were later intergrated into greek society does not matter. Nor would I say those macedonians of Alxeanders time have anything to do with anything Yugoslavian.

As an example, during the time of the Roman Empire, one would not have considered Alexander's empire a Roman empire would they?

 

Arrian, Plutarch and Herodotus say no such things as Macedonians as a non greek entity i have read them personally. The language is ancient greek you can confirm that from ancient textile urns and manuscripts of the Vergina excavation site as in the tomb of King Philip the Second which was the father of Alexander. Even after the great civil war that Alexander did in Greece to unite all the Greeks to make an expendition war against the Persian empire there was no need to translate anything(lol to claim that is just a joke) because all the orders where given in greek or else Alexander would have an army of translators for just giving to the march of 1.200.000 soldiers that rushed against Persia.

Just Read More Carefully next time if you ever read this great Historians.

Sparta