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Forums - Sony - Sony Gets Other OS Class-Action Lawsuite Dismissed

o_O.Q on 13 December 2011
fordy said:
o_O.Q said:

so its justifiable for nintendo to make promises  ( that as you say may sway customer interest ) and then never deliver on them... 

so if i went into a shop tommorow and bought a wii expecting that the peripheral that i saw in a big nintendo announcement would eventually add to my gaming experience but it never happens

is comparable to sony not mentioning other os in any ads or announcements except on a few sites affilitated with linux and a couple interviews lol

edit: the thing is i don't even get how i got this far into a discussion about other os advertising as there actually wasn't any give me a sticker on the console or the box or a tv announcement and i'd agree with you but i don't consider stuff like siny's slogan for their time in the industry and a couple interviews to qualify as advertising for a major feature


Nope. I'd call you stupid for buying a console before the release of the peripheral you were seeking.

Once again, OtherOS was THERE. It had already released. Had this been a peripheral that Nintendo put on the market and took away later, I;d be equally as pissed.

Also, the whole advertising thing does come with conditions. One of those prohibits "misleading" but that's only on the case that, in terms of Kinect features, they never released a press statement that the features were taken away, so you bought it expecting those features to be included.

See how it works?

"See how it works?"

nah all i see is that we see things differently, just like how you believe that even though theres nothing on the console, the box it comes in ( which has all of the supported media and formats - bluray, compact disc, wifi, dolby, etc), in ps3 tv ads or other promos about other os thats its still being advertised as a major ps3 feature but i see otherwise



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fordy on 13 December 2011
Izo said:

As far as its concerned the case was thrown out. Sony isnt teading on personal propierty rights thats the way you take it.

1. OtherOS was a rarely used feature and blueray playback/usb ports are not. 2. Sony has to face the reaction for removing a feature that everyone uses. Would I be pissed if they removed a feature like that? Yes  Is it the same as removing a underused feature in order to protect themselve? No and thats the relm of reason. People blew this issue out of the water even if they didn't use linux on ps3. Legit users have a right to be pissed but they had a choice to keep it. 

2. Accutally they gave you the choice to keep your oh so important feature or use there FREE service that they dont have to offer in the first place and since its obv. the better choice people picked it instead and then complained about OtherOS.

Your expression is that of 2 negatives. This is a situation of picking OtherOS or a free service. 


I'm willing to bet that the majority of users don't use the USB ports, so your argument is pretty pointless there. Yes, people blew it out of the water, but if you were given a choice of sacrificing one feature, or another (or possibly two. We need to see whether some more recent games require firmware updartes after OtherOS removal), you'd be pretty ticked off, too.

I'm going to say this right now; there is no such thing as a free lunch. You want a service you have to pay for it. Believe it or not, you may THINK that PSN is free, but it's basically paid for by the savings of bypassing personal property rights. Once again, this is supposed to be a level playing ground. If other companies are playing fair, why is Sony the ones who are cheating? Wouldn't you call that gaining an upper-hand on competitors?

Oh, and by the way, if it was just a matter of blocking the OtherOS users from PSN, then it would be fine. However, there is great concern that more recent games have the possibility of not working on the older firmware that these users are stuck with for staying with OtherOS...



fordy on 13 December 2011
o_O.Q said:

"See how it works?"

nah all i see is that we see things differently, just like how you believe that even though theres nothing on the console, the box it comes in ( which has all of the supported media and formats - bluray, compact disc, wifi, dolby, etc), in ps3 tv ads or other promos about other os thats its still being advertised as a major ps3 feature but i see otherwise

It was being advertised as a feature. View my links.

Regardless, the matter still comes down to whether Sony has the right to remove features from a system that has been bought and paid for....



o_O.Q on 13 December 2011
fordy said:
o_O.Q said:

"just enforce more security measures on the online service?"

hackers can't find a way around that right?

wasn't the gaming network thought of as the best and most secure ( steam ) hacked just a short while ago?...

furthermore you're forgetting to mention that one of the issues involved here wasn't just PSN but also the exploits allowing for piracy that were spread by geohot, that is an unrelated issue to PSN that had to be dealt with


If you really believe that ANY system is hack-proof, you're living in a dreamland.

The rule is "nothing is hack-proof, but we can't make it a damn sight harder for them TO hack it"

Therefore, this whole defending trampling of personal property rights is moot in itself. You can bolt a system down as much as you want on both sides. It still wont be hack-proof. Sony could do a damn sight more in terms of server-side security, but they prefer to trample on personal property rights because it's cheaper. That's how the corporate machine works!

The spreading of the new firmware by geohot is a completely seperate case, but are you implying that without OtherOS, Geohotz firmware CAN'T be installed? I'm pretty sure all you need is a brand new PS3 and an IP entry in your hosts DNS resolution file on a PC. OtherOS is not needed, so disabling it is not going to stop anything.

"You can bolt a system down as much as you want on both sides. It still wont be hack-proof"

and i suppose that means you don't try either right?

geohot broke through the ps3s security on 2 occasions - 1 via a vulnerability through other os ( in this variant yes it was needed ) and later without that vulnerability ( after other os was removed )



fordy on 13 December 2011
o_O.Q said:

"You can bolt a system down as much as you want on both sides. It still wont be hack-proof"

and i suppose that means you don't try either right?

geohot broke through the ps3s security on 2 occasions - 1 via a vulnerability through other os ( in this variant yes it was needed ) and later without that vulnerability ( after other os was removed )


You try, but you don't go trampling on personal property rights either...

You can not deny the fact, especially after April, that PSNs security was not exactly their hardest attempt at security, right? Once again, Sony can just walk away from client-side security if their dedication to server-side security was just as passionate.

You realise that you just proved my point, right? You don't need OtherOS in order to hack the PS3. So now that it's out, why even bother keeping OtherOS removed?



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o_O.Q on 13 December 2011
fordy said:
o_O.Q said:

"See how it works?"

nah all i see is that we see things differently, just like how you believe that even though theres nothing on the console, the box it comes in ( which has all of the supported media and formats - bluray, compact disc, wifi, dolby, etc), in ps3 tv ads or other promos about other os thats its still being advertised as a major ps3 feature but i see otherwise

It was being advertised as a feature. View my links.

Regardless, the matter still comes down to whether Sony has the right to remove features from a system that has been bought and paid for....

well we obviously have a very different concept of advertising for gaming for me it entails :

signage on the console ( no other os there )

 the box it comes in ( which in the ps3's case shows all of the supported media and formats - bluray, compact disc, wifi, dolby, etc but shockingly no other os)

ps3 tv ads, radio ads or other promos ( can't say for certain but i'm pretty sure its not there either )

 

"the matter still comes down to whether Sony has the right to remove features"

well legally i'd say they did but as i've said before it was unfair to other os users, no doubt about that... but beyond that taking geohots exploits into consideration i can see why it was done 




o_O.Q on 13 December 2011
fordy said:
o_O.Q said:

"You can bolt a system down as much as you want on both sides. It still wont be hack-proof"

and i suppose that means you don't try either right?

geohot broke through the ps3s security on 2 occasions - 1 via a vulnerability through other os ( in this variant yes it was needed ) and later without that vulnerability ( after other os was removed )


You try, but you don't go trampling on personal property rights either...

You can not deny the fact, especially after April, that PSNs security was not exactly their hardest attempt at security, right? Once again, Sony can just walk away from client-side security if their dedication to server-side security was just as passionate.

You realise that you just proved my point, right? You don't need OtherOS in order to hack the PS3. So now that it's out, why even bother keeping OtherOS removed?

because of the exploit for other os that geohot released i'm guessing

"PSNs security was not exactly their hardest attempt at security, right?"

i wouldn't know for certain i'm not privy to how sony secures its network but if some reports stating that their security was outdated are true yes i'd say that was a massive fail on their part



fordy on 13 December 2011
o_O.Q said:
fordy said:
o_O.Q said:

"See how it works?"

nah all i see is that we see things differently, just like how you believe that even though theres nothing on the console, the box it comes in ( which has all of the supported media and formats - bluray, compact disc, wifi, dolby, etc), in ps3 tv ads or other promos about other os thats its still being advertised as a major ps3 feature but i see otherwise

It was being advertised as a feature. View my links.

Regardless, the matter still comes down to whether Sony has the right to remove features from a system that has been bought and paid for....

well we obviously have a very different concept of advertising for gaming for me it entails :

signage on the console ( no other os there )

 the box it comes in ( which in the ps3's case shows all of the supported media and formats - bluray, compact disc, wifi, dolby, etc but shockingly no other os)

ps3 tv ads, radio ads or other promos ( can't say for certain but i'm pretty sure its not there either )

 

"the matter still comes down to whether Sony has the right to remove features"

well legally i'd say they did but as i've said before it was unfair to other os users, no doubt about that... but beyond that taking geohots exploits into consideration i can see why it was done 


What do you think E3 etc are? A big advertisment by numerous gaming companies, to announce things to get people excited. Does that mean I'd get a console based on a new feature that didn't have a confirmed release date? Absolutely not.

How was what done? you even mentioned Geohotz exploits surround more than just OtherOS. In fact, any PS3 without OtherOS can still use the exploit. Now I know that they removed OtherOS before Geohotz found the non-OtherOS exploit, but for the sake of consistency, doesn't that mean OtherOS or not, they're still hackable, and just re-introduce it?



o_O.Q on 13 December 2011
fordy said:
o_O.Q said:
fordy said:
o_O.Q said:

"See how it works?"

nah all i see is that we see things differently, just like how you believe that even though theres nothing on the console, the box it comes in ( which has all of the supported media and formats - bluray, compact disc, wifi, dolby, etc), in ps3 tv ads or other promos about other os thats its still being advertised as a major ps3 feature but i see otherwise

It was being advertised as a feature. View my links.

Regardless, the matter still comes down to whether Sony has the right to remove features from a system that has been bought and paid for....

well we obviously have a very different concept of advertising for gaming for me it entails :

signage on the console ( no other os there )

 the box it comes in ( which in the ps3's case shows all of the supported media and formats - bluray, compact disc, wifi, dolby, etc but shockingly no other os)

ps3 tv ads, radio ads or other promos ( can't say for certain but i'm pretty sure its not there either )

 

"the matter still comes down to whether Sony has the right to remove features"

well legally i'd say they did but as i've said before it was unfair to other os users, no doubt about that... but beyond that taking geohots exploits into consideration i can see why it was done 


What do you think E3 etc are? A big advertisment by numerous gaming companies, to announce things to get people excited. Does that mean I'd get a console based on a new feature that didn't have a confirmed release date? Absolutely not.

How was what done? you even mentioned Geohotz exploits surround more than just OtherOS. In fact, any PS3 without OtherOS can still use the exploit. Now I know that they removed OtherOS before Geohotz found the non-OtherOS exploit, but for the sake of consistency, doesn't that mean OtherOS or not, they're still hackable, and just re-introduce it?


"doesn't that mean OtherOS or not, they're still hackable, and just re-introduce it?"

i'd agree with that if the ps3 wasn't secure at this point in time but to my knowledge it is



fordy on 13 December 2011
o_O.Q said:


"doesn't that mean OtherOS or not, they're still hackable, and just re-introduce it?"

i'd agree with that if the ps3 wasn't secure at this point in time but to my knowledge it is


How? You just mentioned before that the PS3 is hackable without OtherOS, and you're right. The master keys are out there, which Sony has admitted that, in order to fix it, it would require new hardware (by that they mean a new generation).