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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Wii U vs PS4 vs Xbox One FULL SPECS (January 24, 2014)

DanneSandin said:
Andrespetmonkey said:
DanneSandin said:
Andrespetmonkey said:
DanneSandin said:
Well, considering the discussion that's been going on here now it's quite clear Xbox720 will be the most powerful next gen. They could easily make a console for $500 and sell it for $400 - something Sony won't be able to do because of the strong Yen. The PS4 would probably cost 35-40k to produce. If it costs 35k Yen to make it would probably get sold at $350 for a $56 loss, or at $400 for $6 loss. If it costs 40k Yen it'll get sold for $400 for a $64 loss, or sold at $450 for a $14 loss. Doesn't this sound plausible?

This clearly tells us only Xbox could have a major leap next gen. And if WiiStation is on par with each other I figure most games will get developed for these and get up scaled for Xbox3. Thoughts? Am I understanding the situation, or am I completely off?

You're a bit off imo. Xbox 3 will probably not be first in power if Kinect 2 comes with every box, if it doesn't I think the PS4 will almost definitely be a significant jump over the Wii U, but Xbox 3 has a good chance of being a significant jump over PS4.

I'm basing that conclusion on the discussion you had with Viper1 (one of the best I've seen around here really - I learned a lot!). MS has the cash to push a monster console, SOny simply can't do that imo.

I agree, but if Microsoft spend say $100 of their "budget" on packing a kinect 2 in with every system, it'll put them on similar grounds to Sony concerning the amount spent on the actual console.

Aaah yes, but as someone wrote here not long ago kinect 1.0 actually was a stripped down version, so 2.0 shouldn't be too expansive... If this is true that is! But they could sell it separately or have different SKU's... or they'll just lose $200 thinking they'll make it back in the long run (and this will of course see them exiting the HW business ;))

There's almost no chance that Microsoft will exit the hardware business, even if they fail this generation.  Sony, on the other hand, might.



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I could see the Xbox720 launching at $400 - $500 with an option to buy it at $200 with a two year monthly subscription contract.



Viper1 said:
Andrespetmonkey said:

That would be a powerful console. For 40kyen/$500 Sony could definitely get these specs or better considering the loss. Well, imo it's a powerful console, nothing beastly like PS360 but nothing to scoff at either, a significant jump over Wii U and big jump over this gen for a very reasonable price.


I read your list and I'm not sure an HD 7850 is possible given the 130 watt TDP.   That's very high.    The GPU's in the PS3 and X360 were between 60 and 80 watts.  A game console chassis cannot disspate heat as well as a computer tower can.

You are also running into the currency problem we discussed above.   You can't price a build in Pounds because it doesn't work that way.   You have to price it in Yen first and then exchange it to the other currencies.  And you can't simply convert your Pounds to Yen.   You need to find out what those componenets cost in Yen first.   I know that's a pain in the ass to do but if you go about it the other way around, you end up miscalculating what the actual build cost will be.

For example, your $310 build cost would be ¥24,369.    That's far lower than the Wii U itself and more than the $39 retail margin you added.  Which, by the way tends to be little to zero margin at all.   It's why many retailers rfused to carry the PSP Go.


Keep in mind that the 7850`s TDP includes the VRAM, cooler etc wich is not included in the console GPU TDP.



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

Crono141 said:
DanneSandin said:
Andrespetmonkey said:
DanneSandin said:
Andrespetmonkey said:
DanneSandin said:
Well, considering the discussion that's been going on here now it's quite clear Xbox720 will be the most powerful next gen. They could easily make a console for $500 and sell it for $400 - something Sony won't be able to do because of the strong Yen. The PS4 would probably cost 35-40k to produce. If it costs 35k Yen to make it would probably get sold at $350 for a $56 loss, or at $400 for $6 loss. If it costs 40k Yen it'll get sold for $400 for a $64 loss, or sold at $450 for a $14 loss. Doesn't this sound plausible?

This clearly tells us only Xbox could have a major leap next gen. And if WiiStation is on par with each other I figure most games will get developed for these and get up scaled for Xbox3. Thoughts? Am I understanding the situation, or am I completely off?

You're a bit off imo. Xbox 3 will probably not be first in power if Kinect 2 comes with every box, if it doesn't I think the PS4 will almost definitely be a significant jump over the Wii U, but Xbox 3 has a good chance of being a significant jump over PS4.

I'm basing that conclusion on the discussion you had with Viper1 (one of the best I've seen around here really - I learned a lot!). MS has the cash to push a monster console, SOny simply can't do that imo.

I agree, but if Microsoft spend say $100 of their "budget" on packing a kinect 2 in with every system, it'll put them on similar grounds to Sony concerning the amount spent on the actual console.

Aaah yes, but as someone wrote here not long ago kinect 1.0 actually was a stripped down version, so 2.0 shouldn't be too expansive... If this is true that is! But they could sell it separately or have different SKU's... or they'll just lose $200 thinking they'll make it back in the long run (and this will of course see them exiting the HW business ;))

There's almost no chance that Microsoft will exit the hardware business, even if they fail this generation.  Sony, on the other hand, might.

Yeah, they really want that media hub in our living rooms...



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zarx said:
Viper1 said:
Andrespetmonkey said:

That would be a powerful console. For 40kyen/$500 Sony could definitely get these specs or better considering the loss. Well, imo it's a powerful console, nothing beastly like PS360 but nothing to scoff at either, a significant jump over Wii U and big jump over this gen for a very reasonable price.


I read your list and I'm not sure an HD 7850 is possible given the 130 watt TDP.   That's very high.    The GPU's in the PS3 and X360 were between 60 and 80 watts.  A game console chassis cannot disspate heat as well as a computer tower can.

You are also running into the currency problem we discussed above.   You can't price a build in Pounds because it doesn't work that way.   You have to price it in Yen first and then exchange it to the other currencies.  And you can't simply convert your Pounds to Yen.   You need to find out what those componenets cost in Yen first.   I know that's a pain in the ass to do but if you go about it the other way around, you end up miscalculating what the actual build cost will be.

For example, your $310 build cost would be ¥24,369.    That's far lower than the Wii U itself and more than the $39 retail margin you added.  Which, by the way tends to be little to zero margin at all.   It's why many retailers rfused to carry the PSP Go.


Keep in mind that the 7850`s TDP includes the VRAM, cooler etc wich is not included in the console GPU TDP.

While true, you still have VRAM and a coolling solution on the console so you still end up having to add that in overall. 



The rEVOLution is not being televised

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DanneSandin said:
Crono141 said:
DanneSandin said:
superchunk said:
DanneSandin said:
Well, considering the discussion that's been going on here now it's quite clear Xbox720 will be the most powerful next gen. They could easily make a console for $500 and sell it for $400 - something Sony won't be able to do because of the strong Yen. The PS4 would probably cost 35-40k to produce. If it costs 35k Yen to make it would probably get sold at $350 for a $56 loss, or at $400 for $6 loss. If it costs 40k Yen it'll get sold for $400 for a $64 loss, or sold at $450 for a $14 loss. Doesn't this sound plausible?

This clearly tells us only Xbox could have a major leap next gen. And if WiiStation is on par with each other I figure most games will get developed for these and get up scaled for Xbox3. Thoughts? Am I understanding the situation, or am I completely off?


Not necessarily. I mentioned a few posts up that some newer reports say MS has changed course and switched to AMDs APUs as well. Meaning it might be nearly identical with Sony, if true. Its only one source I know of (neogaf source) and I was waiting for more on it before really considering it. But, it is a possible outcome.

 

However, taking it from a purely financial point of view, yeah you could be right. Unless mr monkey is right and Kinect2 is part of the base asking price.

I wish I knew what you were talking about with all those AMDs and APUs, but alas, I don't =( But I get "Meaning it might be nearly identical with Sony", and if that's the case it all comes down to who's got the most diferentiating (damn that's hard word to spell!) console. If they're all in the same ballpark Nintendo wins. Hands down. Game over.

AMD APU line is the budget choice for PC builders.  Lots of cores with high clock speeds at a relatively low cost (relative to intel).  They are x86/64 chips usually with a competant integrated graphics solution on the chip.  While they are cheaper than intel's line, they also underperform it significantly.  I really wonder how an x86/64 chip will perform in a game console, since to my knowledge this will be the first time someone has used one for that purpose.

One advantage (?) of them using an x86/64 chipset in their machines is that allows Sony and Microsoft to put windows 8 or other x86/64 OS backend on the device with not much modification.  For windows 8, it'll take drivers.  Sony could potentially use a Linux backend with this chipset, and I honestly think they will since "Playstation is a computer, not a console" has become a sony meme.  They might actually convince relevant governing bodies that this time its true, and be able to dodge the export tax that they are constantly trying to avoid.

haha so many words! and so few I understand in this context xD I'm sorry, I probably never will understand things like this - but thanks for trying! I kinda got bits and pieces, but nothing more...

Quote me back so I will know to reply again later when I have more time and i'll explain what all that means in more detail.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Viper1 said:

While true, you still have VRAM and a coolling solution on the console so you still end up having to add that in overall. 


Next gen consoles will likely be using unified RAM and one cooling system for the entire system tho so it is still not an apples to apples comparison. Going from a board with it's own power system, VRAM, cooling system, to a GPU soldered onto a board in a console is a big difference.



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

zarx said:
Viper1 said:

While true, you still have VRAM and a coolling solution on the console so you still end up having to add that in overall. 


Next gen consoles will likely be using unified RAM and one cooling system for the entire system tho so it is still not an apples to apples comparison. Going from a board with it's own power system, VRAM, cooling system, to a GPU soldered onto a board in a console is a big difference.

Sure, there is some difference between the 2 set ups but you quote me as though those things wouldn't be part of a console at all.

However, those are small drains compared to the GPU chips themselves.  3-10 watts for the fan.   A few watts for the VRAM.  

Even if you completely removed those from the total system wattage budget, you'd still only drop the GPU from 130 to ~120 watts.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

DanneSandin said:
Crono141 said:

AMD APU line is the budget choice for PC builders.  Lots of cores with high clock speeds at a relatively low cost (relative to intel).  They are x86/64 chips usually with a competant integrated graphics solution on the chip.  While they are cheaper than intel's line, they also underperform it significantly.  I really wonder how an x86/64 chip will perform in a game console, since to my knowledge this will be the first time someone has used one for that purpose.

One advantage (?) of them using an x86/64 chipset in their machines is that allows Sony and Microsoft to put windows 8 or other x86/64 OS backend on the device with not much modification.  For windows 8, it'll take drivers.  Sony could potentially use a Linux backend with this chipset, and I honestly think they will since "Playstation is a computer, not a console" has become a sony meme.  They might actually convince relevant governing bodies that this time its true, and be able to dodge the export tax that they are constantly trying to avoid.

haha so many words! and so few I understand in this context xD I'm sorry, I probably never will understand things like this - but thanks for trying! I kinda got bits and pieces, but nothing more...

AMD - A company that makes graphics cards and CPU's.

APU - Accelerated Processing Unit.  This is basically a GPU with extra stuff on it.  In this case, a built in GPU (graphics processing unit).

Core - An independant processing unit in a modern CPU.  A dual core CPU is like having 2 CPU's.  Each core can work on things separately.

x86/64 - This is a CPU instruction set.   How the CPU processes data. 

 

X86/64 based CPU's like those made by Intel and AMD are typically found in everyday home computers.  But video game consoles have typically used other types of CPUs.  The Wii, PS3, X360, GC and Wii U all use a type of CPU from IBM.  An operating system, like Windows 7 or the upcoming Windows 8, is designed to operate on certain CPU types.  Windows run on x86 and x86/64 types.  Since the next Xbox and/or PlayStation may use one of these x86/64 CPU's, it might be possible for them them to run Windows on the console.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Viper1 said:

X86/64 based CPU's like those made by Intel and AMD are typically found in everyday home computers.  But video game consoles have typically used other types of CPUs.  The Wii, PS3, X360, GC and Wii U all use a type of CPU from IBM.  An operating system, like Windows 7 or the upcoming Windows 8, is designed to operate on certain CPU types.  Windows run on x86 and x86/64 types.  Since the next Xbox and/or PlayStation may use one of these x86/64 CPU's, it might be possible for them them to run Windows on the console.


TBH the new 360 beta fw dashboard looks like windows 8 to me ... (of course with some modifications)

with an x86/64 CPU they will have an easier time to 'port' a heaviely modified windows to the xbox ...