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Forums - General - High School Gay Bashing Caught on Video. Bully Got Off with a 3 Day Suspension.

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Kasz216 said:
Paul said:

I find it pretty disturbing that so many people on this site can't distinguish why violence directed at a specific group because of that groups traits is worse than random acts of violence. The 9/11 attacks and most terrorism for that matter, acts of genocide and some wars occur when groups of like minded people target specific groups. These things are obviously far worse than a random murder or beating.

Your comparisons are mass murder vs one death or one beating.

If a group of people went around with guns and shot up a bunch of random people in a town for no good reason, or just randomly killed people like the Manson family do you really think people would say "Well gee that's not as bad."


Not a chance.

Again though... I ask you.  If someone kills someone because they're gay, and someone else kills someone because they just felt like killing someone...  What other crimes does the second person have to comit to be "just as bad"

Wouldn't a person like that be classified as 'criminally insane'?



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

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sethnintendo said:


I can give you two personal experiences that one could be consider racial that was done unintentionally by me and that I was unware of.  I sometimes called Japanese by their shorter WW2 name probably because I might have heard it from my Grandpa that happen to fight in WW2 on a destroyer against the Japanese.  Anyways, I was then corrected in high school computer lab after I typed it in and the teacher overhearing/seeing which then I was informed I shouldn't use anymore.  Another time I was working at a previous job and happened to say a line from Foghorn leghorn "i said, i said" then I continued on with "now boy, now boy" to two people that happened to be black which then I was informed that wasn't a good term to use to African American.  They eventually realized that I had no clue what I did and I probably did the Foghorn leghorn impersonation a few more times to them goofing off.  I didn't do my research on derogatory terms when I came down to Texas since I grew up in Ohio and never really dealt with any racial prejudice towards any race.

Main point I am trying to make is that the person can get their ass kicked for many reasons or a crime might be committed that wasn't really intentionally hate motivated and to charge them with hate crime felony charges is unjust.

I stopped reading after that word. Commiting a crime unintentionally leads to  totally different legal outcome. There is no such thing as an unintentional hate crime. Like MrBubbles said, you can't accidentally hate someone.

You should also know that prosecuters rarely try to charge someone with a hate crime if they don't have solid evidence that the primary motive was hate. A hate crime is all about the motive, not about the act or who the victim is. Beating up someone who is black isn't a hate crime, if all you wanted was to steal his wallet. Similarly, beating up a straight guy because you think he's gay and you hate gay people is still a hate crime.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

Kasz216 said:
Paul said:

I find it pretty disturbing that so many people on this site can't distinguish why violence directed at a specific group because of that groups traits is worse than random acts of violence. The 9/11 attacks and most terrorism for that matter, acts of genocide and some wars occur when groups of like minded people target specific groups. These things are obviously far worse than a random murder or beating.

Your comparisons are mass murder vs one death or one beating.

If a group of people went around with guns and shot up a bunch of random people in a town for no good reason, or just randomly killed people like the Manson family do you really think people would say "Well gee that's not as bad."


Not a chance.

Again though... I ask you.  If someone kills someone because they're gay, and someone else kills someone because they just felt like killing someone...  What other crimes does the second person have to comit to be "just as bad"

When people target a specific group it creates fear within that group. People in that group will be aware that they are at a higher risk of being targeted and it leads to stress, depression and fear.

I am a white male living in Canada. While I'm aware that I could potentially be the target of a random act of violence I know that the chances are very low and I carry on my life without giving much thought to the safety of my family.

If I were a black man living in Mississipi in the 1960s or a Jewish man living in Germany in 1938, I would probably be much more concerned for my safety and that of my family.

A young gay man in Ottawa where I'm from killed himself about a month ago. He was the only openly gay man at his school and was the target of harrasement and bullying. While bullying anyone is wrong, this guy new that he would be a target for the next few years of his life because he was gay and thought that it would be a better option to kill himself then face a few more years of abuse.

Your comparisons are mass murder vs one death or one beating. Historically, most cases of genocide can be linked to extreme racism.

I'm really finding it challenging that people can't seem to understand the harm that discrimination can cause.



sapphi_snake said:

I stopped reading after that word. Commiting a crime unintentionally leads to  totally different legal outcome. There is no such thing as an unintentional hate crime. Like MrBubbles said, you can't accidentally hate someone.

You should also know that prosecuters rarely try to charge someone with a hate crime if they don't have solid evidence that the primary motive was hate. A hate crime is all about the motive, not about the act or who the victim is. Beating up someone who is black isn't a hate crime, if all you wanted was to steal his wallet. Similarly, beating up a straight guy because you think he's gay and you hate gay people is still a hate crime.

Okay, I just remember a case while going to Texas Tech that 2-3 teenagers slightly ransacked a church or Synagogue (forget which one) and people were debating whether to charge them with hate crime when it clearly wasn't the case.  It just seems that some incidents aren't so clear to some prosecutors.  Now your explanation sounds pretty defined and I can see that you wouldn't be confused on which type of crime was committed.  However, some other people might.



Paul said:
Kasz216 said:
Paul said:

I find it pretty disturbing that so many people on this site can't distinguish why violence directed at a specific group because of that groups traits is worse than random acts of violence. The 9/11 attacks and most terrorism for that matter, acts of genocide and some wars occur when groups of like minded people target specific groups. These things are obviously far worse than a random murder or beating.

Your comparisons are mass murder vs one death or one beating.

If a group of people went around with guns and shot up a bunch of random people in a town for no good reason, or just randomly killed people like the Manson family do you really think people would say "Well gee that's not as bad."


Not a chance.

Again though... I ask you.  If someone kills someone because they're gay, and someone else kills someone because they just felt like killing someone...  What other crimes does the second person have to comit to be "just as bad"

When people target a specific group it creates fear within that group. People in that group will be aware that they are at a higher risk of being targeted and it leads to stress, depression and fear.

I am a white male living in Canada. While I'm aware that I could potentially be the target of a random act of violence I know that the chances are very low and I carry on my life without giving much thought to the safety of my family.

If I were a black man living in Mississipi in the 1960s or a Jewish man living in Germany in 1938, I would probably be much more concerned for my safety and that of my family.

A young gay man in Ottawa where I'm from killed himself about a month ago. He was the only openly gay man at his school and was the target of harrasement and bullying. While bullying anyone is wrong, this guy new that he would be a target for the next few years of his life because he was gay and thought that it would be a better option to kill himself then face a few more years of abuse.

Your comparisons are mass murder vs one death or one beating. Historically, most cases of genocide can be linked to extreme racism.

I'm really finding it challenging that people can't seem to understand the harm that discrimination can cause.


So you totally skirted both issues there.

Also, all cases of genocide can be linked to extreme racism.  It's the entire point of the word.  Most mass murders however... can not.

For example.  Stalin's mass purges... or Mao Ze Dong's mass purges.  Mass murders, even genocides are mostly politically based... some of which can be attributed to race.

Again you keep argueing two different things here.  If your arguement is "most mass fear caused", actually the case where the cases are random cause more fear, since it causes EVERYONE to fear.



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sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:
Paul said:

I find it pretty disturbing that so many people on this site can't distinguish why violence directed at a specific group because of that groups traits is worse than random acts of violence. The 9/11 attacks and most terrorism for that matter, acts of genocide and some wars occur when groups of like minded people target specific groups. These things are obviously far worse than a random murder or beating.

Your comparisons are mass murder vs one death or one beating.

If a group of people went around with guns and shot up a bunch of random people in a town for no good reason, or just randomly killed people like the Manson family do you really think people would say "Well gee that's not as bad."


Not a chance.

Again though... I ask you.  If someone kills someone because they're gay, and someone else kills someone because they just felt like killing someone...  What other crimes does the second person have to comit to be "just as bad"

Wouldn't a person like that be classified as 'criminally insane'?


Not nessisairly.  Being Criminally insane means you don't realize your actions are wrong.  People are perfectly capable of knowing that and killing people anyway.  Like Geoffery Dahmer who claimed he knew it was wrong but figured there was no god, so why not kill people.



sethnintendo said:
ClaudeLv250 said:
People who complain about the existence of Hate Crime Laws are like people that complain about the existence of the Congressional Black Caucus.


Where do you draw the line?  Pretty soon anyone that gets beat up can call it a hate crime.  You know what?  They all are hate crimes because the person obviously dislikes the person based on something hence them beating them up.  Might as well include every race, sex, religion, sexual preference, etc into hate crimes...   Looking for equality right?  Then why not treat everyone equal and not make it more serious of a crime based on what race, sexual preference, religion, etc you are.  I'll probably draw some flak on this but I just want to know where the fuck do you draw the line?

I draw the line where it needs to be drawn. In other words, it's rooted in reality. Frequent attacks against people based solely on their race or sexual preferences? Scarily frequent. Crimes motivated by someone's like of a video game manufacturer? Borderline delusional.

Does this favor gays and minorities? Asbolutely. It's a country with institionalized racism, of course there would be hate crime laws to protect the minorities. It's an exclusive club but it's something most adults learn to deal with.

Are you afraid that people being accused of hate crimes were innocent all along? Or that the punishment is too harsh? I think anyone stupid enough to commit atrocities against another human being based entirely on sex, race or orientation gets what they deserve.



Tag - "No trolling on my watch!"

Kasz216 said:


Not nessisairly.  Being Criminally insane means you don't realize your actions are wrong.  People are perfectly capable of knowing that and killing people anyway.  Like Geoffery Dahmer who claimed he knew it was wrong but figured there was no god, so why not kill people.

Geoffrey Dahmer? Don't you mean the gay guy who killed other gay men because his fundementalist religious parents taught him to be self hating and to hate homosexuals? I googled him and nothing regarding him killing people 'because there was no god' is mentioned.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:


Not nessisairly.  Being Criminally insane means you don't realize your actions are wrong.  People are perfectly capable of knowing that and killing people anyway.  Like Geoffery Dahmer who claimed he knew it was wrong but figured there was no god, so why not kill people.

Geoffrey Dahmer? Don't you mean the gay guy who killed other gay men because his fundementalist religious parents taught him to be self hating and to hate homosexuals? I googled him and nothing regarding him killing people 'because there was no god' is mentioned.

Then you probably didn't google very hard....  I mean... straight from the horses mouth on this one...

Heck, the way they seem to state it, they weren't very relgious at all, and his father was an atheist for many years.



Kasz216 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:


Not nessisairly.  Being Criminally insane means you don't realize your actions are wrong.  People are perfectly capable of knowing that and killing people anyway.  Like Geoffery Dahmer who claimed he knew it was wrong but figured there was no god, so why not kill people.

Geoffrey Dahmer? Don't you mean the gay guy who killed other gay men because his fundementalist religious parents taught him to be self hating and to hate homosexuals? I googled him and nothing regarding him killing people 'because there was no god' is mentioned.

Then you probably didn't google very hard....  I mean... straight from the horses mouth on this one...

Heck, the way they seem to state it, they weren't very relgious at all, and his father was an atheist for many years.

That entire segment seems like an ad for born again christians. LOL One of the phoniest things I've ever seen.

And articles I've found about him said that his parents were christian fundementalists. The part about his father being an atheist seems faux.

Anyways, all of the psychiatrists who testified in his recent hearings said that he was anger at his own homosexuality was one of the main reasons why he commited his acts. He obviously learn that from his parents, who learned it from their religion.  As for the 'straight from the horse's mouth' thing, you are aware that the guy was deemed to be a pathological liar, no?

http://www.holysmoke.org/hs00/dahmer.htm

 

(BTW, why was a schizophrenicput in the same facility as the non-insane killers? Doesn't seem like a good ideea for anyone (and we know how it turned out).)



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)