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Forums - General - Trolls can now be sent to prison

Alby_da_Wolf said:

Perfectly possible in theory, but doctors should visit him and determine it, from the little we know about him, he's not one of those with Asperger that manage to have a normal life, he looks like one of those seriously handicapped in social life and that didn't receive adequate assistance to overcome their problems instead. And if I can't really say whether he's evil or not, I'm 100% sure that the "normal" schoolmates that bullied that poor girl until she committed suicide are actually evil and were totally conscious and willing when they did it, so it makes me furious that judges want to punish that turd that never trolled any of the dead girls when they were alive, he didn't even know them, but let the evil girls that bullied the last victim get away with it. Punishment must be proportional to guilt, those guilty of a more serious offence and with less mitigating factors must receive a heavier penalty, those guilty of a less serious one and with more mitigating factors must receive a lighter one: in this case, bully schoolgirls received NO penalty, so, applying the principle of proportionality, what should be the penalty for the poor turd? 

I'm pretty sure he was examined by a doctor, so if there was any reason why he shouldn't have been punished due to his Aspergers, I'm sure the court would've considered it.

If you read what he did, it's quite unlikely that he wasn't aware that what he was doing was wrong, and it's quite clear that he liked doing it regardless. I mean, he stalked and harassed several people, posted offensive videos on YouTube which he found the time to create himself, he even remembered the date one of the girls died, and then posted an offensive message on her memorial page on the anniversary of her death. And he always did this just where he knew family and loved ones of the kids who were killed/commited suicide would see these messages (so it was clear that he wasn't just trolling on random websites, but deliberately trying to hurt people).

And let's not forget, he pleaded guilty to all he was charged with.

As for the other bullies, kids are often stupid, and don't realzie the consequences of their actions. I don't see any of them dancing on the girls' grave, like this guy is doing.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

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sapphi_snake said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

Perfectly possible in theory, but doctors should visit him and determine it, from the little we know about him, he's not one of those with Asperger that manage to have a normal life, he looks like one of those seriously handicapped in social life and that didn't receive adequate assistance to overcome their problems instead. And if I can't really say whether he's evil or not, I'm 100% sure that the "normal" schoolmates that bullied that poor girl until she committed suicide are actually evil and were totally conscious and willing when they did it, so it makes me furious that judges want to punish that turd that never trolled any of the dead girls when they were alive, he didn't even know them, but let the evil girls that bullied the last victim get away with it. Punishment must be proportional to guilt, those guilty of a more serious offence and with less mitigating factors must receive a heavier penalty, those guilty of a less serious one and with more mitigating factors must receive a lighter one: in this case, bully schoolgirls received NO penalty, so, applying the principle of proportionality, what should be the penalty for the poor turd? 

I'm pretty sure he was examined by a doctor, so if there was any reason why he shouldn't have been punished due to his Aspergers, I'm sure the court would've considered it.

If you read what he did, it's quite unlikely that he wasn't aware that what he was doing was wrong, and it's quite clear that he liked doing it regardless. I mean, he stalked and harassed several people, posted offensive videos on YouTube which he found the time to create himself, he even remembered the date one of the girls died, and then posted an offensive message on her memorial page on the anniversary of her death. And he always did this just where he knew family and loved ones of the kids who were killed/commited suicide would see these messages (so it was clear that he wasn't just trolling on random websites, but deliberately trying to hurt people).

And let's not forget, he pleaded guilty to all he was charged with.

As for the other bullies, kids are often stupid, and don't realzie the consequences of their actions. I don't see any of them dancing on the girls' grave, like this guy is doing.

Pleading guilty when you see the judge wants to make your case an exemplary one and if you can't afford a good lawyer can just be a desperate defence.

But I can't believe that you really consider less serious the offence committed by those that actually pushed a girl to commit suicide. And if you want to give young age as mitigating factor to those "normal" but vicious girls, how can you refuse mental illness as mitigating factor to the troll? And even being equal, and conceding mitigating factors both to bully girls and asperger troll, not prosecuting the girls at all is shameful.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


i dont understand did he make the girl suicide or did he troll her death. if he trolled her death why should he pay because some girl was a retard.



Being in 3rd place never felt so good

padib said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
sapphi_snake said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

Perfectly possible in theory, but doctors should visit him and determine it, from the little we know about him, he's not one of those with Asperger that manage to have a normal life, he looks like one of those seriously handicapped in social life and that didn't receive adequate assistance to overcome their problems instead. And if I can't really say whether he's evil or not, I'm 100% sure that the "normal" schoolmates that bullied that poor girl until she committed suicide are actually evil and were totally conscious and willing when they did it, so it makes me furious that judges want to punish that turd that never trolled any of the dead girls when they were alive, he didn't even know them, but let the evil girls that bullied the last victim get away with it. Punishment must be proportional to guilt, those guilty of a more serious offence and with less mitigating factors must receive a heavier penalty, those guilty of a less serious one and with more mitigating factors must receive a lighter one: in this case, bully schoolgirls received NO penalty, so, applying the principle of proportionality, what should be the penalty for the poor turd? 

I'm pretty sure he was examined by a doctor, so if there was any reason why he shouldn't have been punished due to his Aspergers, I'm sure the court would've considered it.

If you read what he did, it's quite unlikely that he wasn't aware that what he was doing was wrong, and it's quite clear that he liked doing it regardless. I mean, he stalked and harassed several people, posted offensive videos on YouTube which he found the time to create himself, he even remembered the date one of the girls died, and then posted an offensive message on her memorial page on the anniversary of her death. And he always did this just where he knew family and loved ones of the kids who were killed/commited suicide would see these messages (so it was clear that he wasn't just trolling on random websites, but deliberately trying to hurt people).

And let's not forget, he pleaded guilty to all he was charged with.

As for the other bullies, kids are often stupid, and don't realzie the consequences of their actions. I don't see any of them dancing on the girls' grave, like this guy is doing.

Pleading guilty when you see the judge wants to make your case an exemplary one and if you can't afford a good lawyer can just be a desperate defence.

But I can't believe that you really consider less serious the offence committed by those that actually pushed a girl to commit suicide. And if you want to give young age as mitigating factor to those "normal" but vicious girls, how can you refuse mental illness as mitigating factor to the troll? And even being equal, and conceding mitigating factors both to bully girls and asperger troll, not prosecuting the girls at all is shameful.

I agree with you that the girls are guilty of a greater crime than Drew, but how do you judge teenaged schoolgirls for bullying? As evil as it is, it is a natural social phenomenon that never was considered a crime. As guilty as they are can the legal system punish them for being children? The other thing you need to realize is that parents need to be involved in their childrens' lives, and teach their kids about these things and prevent the devastating effects bullying can have. I'm not blaming the parents, but I'm just saying that parents nowadays need to be aware of the increase in suicide rates and the potential deadly effects of bullying and need to mitigate through proper upbringing. We need to raise our kids to have stronger backbones. Life doesn't end when your parents have a divorce, as devastating as it can be.

I think that EVERY mitigating factor should be considered both for those girls and the troll, in an equal way, picking just him for exemplary punishment while remaining mild or even not doing anything against the others is unjust and horrible. And yes, parents should be more responsible and involved in education. About bullying, sadly it's quite natural, but there's a limit: when I was a kid I was bullied and trolled and I din't bully others, because I considered it despicable, but I often trolled them, but everything remained within some limits, nobody got seriously hurt or killed, and nobody committed suicide.

About that girl committing suicide, most probably she was weaker than average, it's also possible that the divorce case could have been quite harsh, but so much a bigger reason to keep the bullying lighter, if they really couldn't do without it.

And that bloke MUST be cured, it's at the same time a right and a duty both for society and himself.

A final observation: did the judge realise that closing him in a normal jail in his conditions he could put himself into such troubles to be seriously hurt or even killed by other prisoners?



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


padib said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
[...]

I think that EVERY mitigating factor should be considered both for those girls and the troll, in an equal way, picking just him for exemplary punishment while remaining mild or even not doing anything against the others is unjust and horrible. And yes, parents should be more responsible and involved in education. About bullying, sadly it's quite natural, but there's a limit: when I was a kid I was bullied and trolled and I din't bully others, because I considered it despicable, but I often trolled them, but everything remained within some limits, nobody got seriously hurt or killed, and nobody committed suicide.

About that girl committing suicide, most probably she was weaker than average, it's also possible that the divorce case could have been quite harsh, but so much a bigger reason to keep the bullying lighter, if they really couldn't do without it.

And that bloke MUST be cured, it's at the same time a right and a duty both for society and himself.

A final observation: did the judge realise that closing him in a normal jail in his conditions he could put himself into such troubles to be seriously hurt or even killed by other prisoners?

I agree with this, he also needs help and prevention of his type of behavior would be a good thing. But the problem is he's more easy to judge guilty given his age and the counter-social trend needed for him to perform that defamation. The same can't be said of the girls.

For italics, well I hope they do. Then again, serves him right? Sorry I'm not as pacifistic as others here...

For italics, he didn't kill anybody, he wouldn't deserve it even without mitigating factors, even less with them. But I see we agree his behaviour must definitely be corrected, whatever the degree of his guilt, he can't keep on behaving like that, willing and conscious or not he's hurting both the others and himself.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


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padib said:
Kasz216 said:
padib said:
Kasz216 said:
padib said:
Kasz216 said:
kowenicki said:
Kasz216 said:
 

What does the British government have to do with this guys sentencing....?  The British government has no power to over-rule an English court decision by a Judge.     And it isnt a crime if the man has no concept of a crime... you have much more faith in the US treatment of overseas defendents than I do.

The whole point is they feel someone with Aspergers would be treated differently and unfairly in the US.

If people with aspergers are being arrested and thrown in jail for the max penalty with no mitigating factors, for lesser crimes...

That destroys all credibility in the arguement.

Furhtemore, the government should be outraged at what happened and be speaking on this internet trolls behalf right? 

I've yet to hear any public outrage.

Because justice has been served. Sorry for trolling a bit but it's true. Someone had to take the shit for it at some point, these things have been much too common (suicides due to harassment). If one guy had to serve the punishment so as to give a clear message to the others not to do it, then well it's a bit unfair but so be it. And I'm looking at it from a philosophical point of view at this point, not legal. I may be totally wrong here, but that's how I feel about it.

Hey i'm not the one that could go to jail over it.

Also uh... nobody committed suicide due to harrasment.

Or at least not due to his harrassment.  He didn't even know any of the girls until after they had died.

He was basically arrested for taunting the parents of children who have died.

Hah! I love it. Then again this isn't a rememberance page for Drew :)

You're right about him being arrested for taunting after her death, it wasn't clear to me given the article. Still, he's not just a troll, he's a sick one. Trolling is okay to an extent, but that's just defamation and hate especially in a place where the person's life is being honored (a rememberance page). I believe our species still understands honor, so maybe that's why they took it so seriously. I mean, maybe if it was on another site it would be less offensive to the parents. It's just the symbol of it is much worse to bear on a tombstone or in a rememberance page.

EDIT: But I think the article didn't give enough information on the Bullying part, alledged to be the reason of her suicide. Are there other  articles that mention those events?

Per the article: "Miss MacBryde had thrown herself under a train in February after being bullied."


She was bullied by classmates because her parents got a divorce... i'm sure the parents divorce played a part in it as well.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1357144/Natasha-MacBryde-bullied-divorced-parents-dies-rail-track.html


I'd agree what he did as wrong and about as evil as you can get, however not everything "wrong" should be illegal.

As sad as the story was, I get the feeling there was not much to do to prevent it. She seemed very deeply hurt by her parents' separation, almost like there was no use living the rest of her life with it being otherwise. It's a feeling I can understand, but I can't say I know how she feels, I just understand it. Suicide is a touchy issue, and it's hard to even tell if the bullies deserved to be punished. It seemed like and... I hope I don't get put in jail for saying this lol... but it seemed like an impulsive decision that wasn't very pre-meditated. The article mentions they saw no signs of it, and the events were so close to each other (the moving to a new school, the separation, etc.)

Tough call I'd say on this one. Was it the bullying or just the sense that there was no hope left (again a feeling I can understand)? How can you prevent a suituation like this when it's not very pre-meditated? How much is too much before it becomes pushing a person to suicide and almost a form of murder?

I don't think the bullies did go to jail.

The only person going to jail is this guy... for taunting her family.

He didn't know her while she was alive... this guy's weird troll fetish was finding "online shrines" and harrassing the people who go there.

Probably out of some weird feeling of jealousness that someone had some level of fame and devoution for just dying or in some cases killing themselves when he himself couldn't really develop close relationships.



zgamer5 said:
i dont understand did he make the girl suicide or did he troll her death. if he trolled her death why should he pay because some girl was a retard.


She killed herself because her parents got a divorce and people bullied her about it.

Her parents built a shrine webpage for her on facebook.

He then came across said page and trolled on it.  Along with 4 other facebook pages made for young girls who died.  None of which he knew while they were alive.



Alby_da_Wolf said:
sapphi_snake said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

Perfectly possible in theory, but doctors should visit him and determine it, from the little we know about him, he's not one of those with Asperger that manage to have a normal life, he looks like one of those seriously handicapped in social life and that didn't receive adequate assistance to overcome their problems instead. And if I can't really say whether he's evil or not, I'm 100% sure that the "normal" schoolmates that bullied that poor girl until she committed suicide are actually evil and were totally conscious and willing when they did it, so it makes me furious that judges want to punish that turd that never trolled any of the dead girls when they were alive, he didn't even know them, but let the evil girls that bullied the last victim get away with it. Punishment must be proportional to guilt, those guilty of a more serious offence and with less mitigating factors must receive a heavier penalty, those guilty of a less serious one and with more mitigating factors must receive a lighter one: in this case, bully schoolgirls received NO penalty, so, applying the principle of proportionality, what should be the penalty for the poor turd? 

I'm pretty sure he was examined by a doctor, so if there was any reason why he shouldn't have been punished due to his Aspergers, I'm sure the court would've considered it.

If you read what he did, it's quite unlikely that he wasn't aware that what he was doing was wrong, and it's quite clear that he liked doing it regardless. I mean, he stalked and harassed several people, posted offensive videos on YouTube which he found the time to create himself, he even remembered the date one of the girls died, and then posted an offensive message on her memorial page on the anniversary of her death. And he always did this just where he knew family and loved ones of the kids who were killed/commited suicide would see these messages (so it was clear that he wasn't just trolling on random websites, but deliberately trying to hurt people).

And let's not forget, he pleaded guilty to all he was charged with.

As for the other bullies, kids are often stupid, and don't realzie the consequences of their actions. I don't see any of them dancing on the girls' grave, like this guy is doing.

Pleading guilty when you see the judge wants to make your case an exemplary one and if you can't afford a good lawyer can just be a desperate defence.

But I can't believe that you really consider less serious the offence committed by those that actually pushed a girl to commit suicide. And if you want to give young age as mitigating factor to those "normal" but vicious girls, how can you refuse mental illness as mitigating factor to the troll? And even being equal, and conceding mitigating factors both to bully girls and asperger troll, not prosecuting the girls at all is shameful.

I don't know what the girls who bullied her did exactly, so I can't really judge that. I don't know the nature of the bullying, and if it was the primary reason, or if it was just one of many factors that made that girl commit suicide. It's also irrelevant to the case at hand. The person on trial is this guy, for harassing the girl's parents and loved ones, along with the parents and loved ones of several other kids who commited suicide or were murdered.

Intent is also very important. It is generally considered that kids cannot be held accountable for some crimes, becaue they're often not aware of the consequences of what they're doing. This guy was obviously well aware of what he was doing, and he knew the effect it was having on the people he was harassing. Don't throw around the word 'mental illness', because Asperger syndrome is not the kind of 'mental illness' where a person suffering from it isn't aware of what he/she is doing (not to mention that many don't even consider it a legitimate condition).



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

padib said:

Yeah, after I read the link you posted I understood the whole story.

I was looking at it from the perspective of suicide prevention in that post. What did you think about what I wrote?

As for his fetish, did you notice they're always girls and always young? Odd coincidence wouldn't you agree?

He also harassed the family of a boy who was shot/stabbed (can't remember exactly).



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

padib said:
sapphi_snake said:
padib said:

Yeah, after I read the link you posted I understood the whole story.

I was looking at it from the perspective of suicide prevention in that post. What did you think about what I wrote?

As for his fetish, did you notice they're always girls and always young? Odd coincidence wouldn't you agree?

He also harassed the family of a boy who was shot/stabbed (can't remember exactly).

The guy's got issues.

Yes, obviously. What have I been saying for the past 10 pages?



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)