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Forums - General - Are there any religions or cults that you just do not understand? With in reason.

sapphi_snake on 21 August 2011
huaxiong90 said:
Dodece said:
@Player

Do not confuse Atheism with Anti-Theism. While many Anti-Theists are Atheists. Not all Atheists are Anti-Theists. In the case of Atheism it is a state of indifference. In the Case of Anti-Theism it is a state of hostility. A Anti-Theist will typically view organized religion as evil, and blame said institution for the problems that ail humanity. To be terribly fair they have a really valid point. History is completely on their side. If you judge organized religion by the results.

Isn't that Agnosticism?

 

As far as history goes: Before religion came into the picture, people were killing each other over tribal conflicts...life was an Anarchy in the old days.

Humanity is just that wicked. You can't just blame it on religion.

Religion didn't really solve things though. People still killed eachother, just sometimes they didn't kill people of the same religion. Religion didn't make a contribution to further differentiate between groups of people (the result being religious conflict).



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

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sapphi_snake on 21 August 2011
Dr.Grass said:
pezus said:
snakenobi said:
Dr.Grass said:
snakenobi said:
Dr.Grass said:

I don't think anyone gets what you are saying. Your comments are incoherent, have no logic, and your spelling is atrocious.


yup my typing is bad,i type way too fast and don't see or recheck.

nobody has to get it,just you have to get as you are the one quoting to which replied to you should understand the relation

people don't submit to slavery happily but they do submit,how else does it happen?

THEY GET THROWN ON BOATS AND ARE TRANSPORTED OVER THE ATLANTIC DURING WHICH TIME HALF OF THEM DIE DUE TO CONDITIONS WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU I WONT EVEN USE COMMAS OR FULL STOPS ANYMORE BECAUSE THERES NO WAY TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU THAT YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR MIND

alrigth i will improve my typing

they get thrown,why don't people from other other countries got thrown?cause they stand up or die in fighting for their right

who threw them?many of their own people

 

their own people betray them,they don't stand up,they don't fight.who's faut is it?their poor condition is because of themselves as much as it is blamed on the rulers

life is not fair,there are no human rights naturally and their never can be peace as that will always require a compromise

Who says they don't fight? Most of the time they fight and lose and see no way of winning.


He's convinced people are poor because they choose to live in poverty, and that the millions of slaves shipped to America (for instance) did so by choice.

I'm not replying to him again since he has no idea what he's talking about and has been digging an ever-deepening hole for himself. Pathetic.

Honestly, he sounds like many right wing people from the US regarding those issues (poor people are to blame because they're poor, slaves are to blame because they were enslaved etc.)



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake on 21 August 2011
padib said:

Problem with this is that history has also been on the side of Christianity. I can name Martin Luther King, Mother Teresa and numerous others who served for justice in the name of Christianity. Ghandi was harmonious with Christianity, just not with Christians.

On the other spectrum, history shows us Nazist germany, Red Russia and other societies based on Atheist ideologies and teachings such as evolution, eugenics, low value of human life and such. In that way history also supports Christianity.

In some fewer cases history supports the other end (such as the crusades), but even those are not nearly as devastating as those I mentioned above which involved mass murders in staggering numbers.

The future looks grim, and it's mostly due to the increased ideology that human life is not worth more than we used to value it. Christianity teaches that human life is of high value, I can't say the same about most other ideologies.

Back on topic, religions I don't understand are mostly cults, Atheism when its proponents believe they are intellectually superior, and even some forms of Christianity, which mostly involves legalism, I have a difficult time with. Any form of brainwash, repression of inquisitiveness and curiosity, dogma, repression of legitimate and innocent expression, any of those I'm strongly opposed to.

Not really fewer. It's not just the crusades, but also the persecution of non-christians after the religion became official, the Inquisition, the wars between catholics and protestants, the persecution of Jews (actually, the hatred of Jews is largely due to christianity, and while the Holocaust wasn't directly caused by christians, the unpopularity of the Jews was their doing, along with the unpopularity of gays, another persecuted group during the holocaust).

Also, you only mentioned 3 exemplary people, one of which was not even a christian (calling Gandhi a christian, or claiming that christianity was the main religion that inflienced his actions is quite dishonest).

And none of the 'Atheist ideologies' you mentioned are actually atheist ideologies. And in the end, when christianity (which you claim teaches that 'human life if of high value') was in power, it wasn't much use to maintaining peace, or keeping people from getting persecuted. Christians would kill non-christians, forcefully covnert people, persecute anyone who didn't want to follow the dogmas etc. It was only after the rise of secularism and the banishment of religion to the private sector did the Western world become a nive place to live. Theocracies are the worst placesto live in.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

osamanobama on 21 August 2011
wilco said:
sapphi_snake said:
Killiana1a said:

Islam. Is it the eastern version of Mormonism where wannabe alpha males marry submissive wives who want to be abused with their misery condoned by the religious text?

How about the treatment of women wanting to be equal to men, homosexuals wanting to lead a life of dignity and adulterers expressing their marital dissatisfaction in Islam? Why is their misery and death by stoning accepted by the religion while any military movement by Israel is considered justification for jihad?

I have never understood Islam and would love to understand what I consider are gross, unapologetic hypocrisies from those who prescribe to the Islamic faith.

You are aware that christianity was like that not too long ago, right?

It still is. The words in the bible haven't changed. I actually respect modern islam more than modern christianity. Modern christianity doesn't even resemble the christianity outlined in the bible. People just take whichever bits and pieces they like and call it christianity.

According to christianity

- Women are not allowed to speak before the congregation.

quote please, link?

- Women must cover their heads in the presence of christian males.

its clearly talking about hair, girls are typically supposed to have longer hair than men

- Homosexuality is condemned.

yes, yes it is. but you arent supposed to hate them

People forget that christianity started out as a CULT.





Mr Khan on 21 August 2011

@ Sapphi: Mormonism is indeed an odd one, founded by Joseph Smith who claimed to find sacred texts in his hometown, which only he could read, and which claimed that when Jesus walked the earth after his resurrection, he came to America and visited the Indians, who were supposed to be white people at the time and only evolved into "red" indians later

Really there's not much wrong with Mormonism, at least since they've disavowed polygamy. They're a clean people that value hard work and sobriety, though their views on certain social liberties can be backwards as with many devoutly religious

The Amish are a derivative of Calvinism who believe that man's excessive materialism distracts us from what is truly important, and thus live in small communal societies, disavowing ownership and materialism. Again, they're a good group of people on the whole aside from social liberties (and they're the best to hire if you live near them like i do and have carpentry you need done)

Scientology belongs where it was conceived: in a Sci-Fi novel. It's a neat mythology, but downright mind-boggling to apply to reality...



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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sabby_e17 on 21 August 2011
huaxiong90 said:

Now as far as religions/cults that I don't understand: I can't say I understand the non-Sunni sects of Islam. 


I tend to figure that Sunnis themselves don't fully understand what Sunnism is. Most Sunnis I know and have spoken to merely follow orders from their scholars or the "Ulema" and consider it correct and they lash out against other sects (Shias, Ahmadis, Ibadis, Sufis - this one isn't even a sect) considering them kaafirs (disbelievers).




wilco on 21 August 2011
Player1x3 said:
wilco said:
Player1x3 said:
wilco said:
sapphi_snake said:
Killiana1a said:

Islam. Is it the eastern version of Mormonism where wannabe alpha males marry submissive wives who want to be abused with their misery condoned by the religious text?

How about the treatment of women wanting to be equal to men, homosexuals wanting to lead a life of dignity and adulterers expressing their marital dissatisfaction in Islam? Why is their misery and death by stoning accepted by the religion while any military movement by Israel is considered justification for jihad?

I have never understood Islam and would love to understand what I consider are gross, unapologetic hypocrisies from those who prescribe to the Islamic faith.

You are aware that christianity was like that not too long ago, right?

It still is. The words in the bible haven't changed. I actually respect modern islam more than modern christianity. Modern christianity doesn't even resemble the christianity outlined in the bible. People just take whichever bits and pieces they like and call it christianity.

According to christianity

- Women are not allowed to speak before the congregation.

- Women must cover their heads in the presence of christian males.

- Homosexuality is condemned.

People forget that christianity started out as a CULT.

Not really, those are all from Torah books, the old testament and jewish writings, which has very little to do with Christianity. Christianity is founed upon New Testament. Christianity is based upon teachings of Christ

Everything I said is from the new testament. 

Women Head covering: 1 11: 4-15

Homosexuality: 1 6: 9, Romans 1: 26-28

Also, the only thing that changed from the old testament to the new testament is most of the jewish rituals were done away with and death sentences were no longer handed out. But as a general rule if it was wrong in the old testament it continued to be wrong in the new testament.

Ah yes, taking Biible quotes out of contex, favorite strategy of an atheist. Did you actually proceed to read aftter Corintheus 15, or you just cherry pick the quotes you like, the same thing your menitoned in your first post?

http://www.1211ministries.com/images/St._Paul_Addresses_Problems_in_Corinth_and_Ephesus.pdf

As for Romans 1, it actually condamns ''shamefull acts'' aka LUST, not homosexuality itself. It does call homosexuality unnatural and lustfull tho. The people were condamned because of shameful acts and their lustfull and un natural deisres. The same thing for them could be said if they were lustful for the opposite sex.

And the general rule in New Testament is '' dont do anything to others that you dont wish to be done to yourself and love and respect your God''. While old testament and the jewish writings put A LOT MRE emphasis on the correct worship and behaviour, the new testament puts emphasis on the correct and orthodox beliefs, as well as morals of christ. They are very different, its only that you choose to see and read what you want to see and read

First of all I am not an atheist. I'm not a practicing christian either but that is only because I decided that if your going to live as a christian it sould be all or nothing. It shouldn't be a matter of picking and choosing which parts of christianity best fit your lifestyle and molding the rest to suit you. I don't quote these scriptures to denounce Christianity, I quote them to clarify what Christianity teaches. I'm tired of seeing it misrepresented by people who are only trying to justify their own lifestyles.

I've read 1st Corinthians, I've read the entire bible. I didn't get my understanding of the bible from webpages. Don't give me webpages, give me biblical text to support your argument. You haven't explained why 1st Corinthians is out of context, but if you don't like that scripture I'll give you another. 

1 Timothy 2:11-15

Also 1 Timothy 3:1-5 .... This one applies to both the role of women and homesexuality. In order to be a leader in the church you must be a "husband of one wife" not a "wife of one husband" or a "husband of one husband." A "husband of one WIFE."

Women are allowed to be ministers. Ministers are people who spread the word to non believers. But they are NOT allowed to be leaders in the congregation. There is simply no way you can rationalize this one based on 1 Timothy 2:11-15 but I would love to see you try.

As for the verse in Romans. I don't know what bible your reading but in every bible I've ever seen it clearly references gay sex as shameful. If Paul simply wanted to say that lust was shameful then he could've simply said that. He goes out of his way to specifically mention lesbian and homosexual sex.

Principles did not change in the new testament. God's principles do NOT change. If you didn't condone homosexuality in the old testament then why would he condone it in the new testament. All scriptures are STILL inspired by God. That is not to say that homosexuals are condemned, but the act of homosexuality IS. No matter how much some people would like to rewrite the bible there is no way around that fact.



sapphi_snake on 21 August 2011
Mr Khan said:
@ Sapphi: Mormonism is indeed an odd one, founded by Joseph Smith who claimed to find sacred texts in his hometown, which only he could read, and which claimed that when Jesus walked the earth after his resurrection, he came to America and visited the Indians, who were supposed to be white people at the time and only evolved into "red" indians later

Really there's not much wrong with Mormonism, at least since they've disavowed polygamy. They're a clean people that value hard work and sobriety, though their views on certain social liberties can be backwards as with many devoutly religious

The Amish are a derivative of Calvinism who believe that man's excessive materialism distracts us from what is truly important, and thus live in small communal societies, disavowing ownership and materialism. Again, they're a good group of people on the whole aside from social liberties (and they're the best to hire if you live near them like i do and have carpentry you need done)

Scientology belongs where it was conceived: in a Sci-Fi novel. It's a neat mythology, but downright mind-boggling to apply to reality...

Thanks for explaining it. I remember watching Angels in America and there being something in Mormonism about wrestling angels. Is there actually such a thing in the religion's mythos?

I still haven't understood what scientolgy is about, other than it being something made up by a sci fi writer. The fact that people actually believe it, even though it's clearly a product of fiction (though even the Mormonism story is hard to swallow), kinda makes me lose my faith in humanity.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

osamanobama on 21 August 2011
wilco said:
Player1x3 said:
wilco said:
Player1x3 said:
wilco said:
sapphi_snake said:
Killiana1a said:

Islam. Is it the eastern version of Mormonism where wannabe alpha males marry submissive wives who want to be abused with their misery condoned by the religious text?

How about the treatment of women wanting to be equal to men, homosexuals wanting to lead a life of dignity and adulterers expressing their marital dissatisfaction in Islam? Why is their misery and death by stoning accepted by the religion while any military movement by Israel is considered justification for jihad?

I have never understood Islam and would love to understand what I consider are gross, unapologetic hypocrisies from those who prescribe to the Islamic faith.

You are aware that christianity was like that not too long ago, right?

It still is. The words in the bible haven't changed. I actually respect modern islam more than modern christianity. Modern christianity doesn't even resemble the christianity outlined in the bible. People just take whichever bits and pieces they like and call it christianity.

According to christianity

- Women are not allowed to speak before the congregation.

- Women must cover their heads in the presence of christian males.

- Homosexuality is condemned.

People forget that christianity started out as a CULT.

Not really, those are all from Torah books, the old testament and jewish writings, which has very little to do with Christianity. Christianity is founed upon New Testament. Christianity is based upon teachings of Christ

Everything I said is from the new testament. 

Women Head covering: 1 11: 4-15

Homosexuality: 1 6: 9, Romans 1: 26-28

Also, the only thing that changed from the old testament to the new testament is most of the jewish rituals were done away with and death sentences were no longer handed out. But as a general rule if it was wrong in the old testament it continued to be wrong in the new testament.

Ah yes, taking Biible quotes out of contex, favorite strategy of an atheist. Did you actually proceed to read aftter Corintheus 15, or you just cherry pick the quotes you like, the same thing your menitoned in your first post?

http://www.1211ministries.com/images/St._Paul_Addresses_Problems_in_Corinth_and_Ephesus.pdf

As for Romans 1, it actually condamns ''shamefull acts'' aka LUST, not homosexuality itself. It does call homosexuality unnatural and lustfull tho. The people were condamned because of shameful acts and their lustfull and un natural deisres. The same thing for them could be said if they were lustful for the opposite sex.

And the general rule in New Testament is '' dont do anything to others that you dont wish to be done to yourself and love and respect your God''. While old testament and the jewish writings put A LOT MRE emphasis on the correct worship and behaviour, the new testament puts emphasis on the correct and orthodox beliefs, as well as morals of christ. They are very different, its only that you choose to see and read what you want to see and read

First of all I am not an atheist. I'm not a practicing christian either but that is only because I decided that if your going to live as a christian it sould be all or nothing. It shouldn't be a matter of picking and choosing which parts of christianity best fit your lifestyle and molding the rest to suit you. I don't quote these scriptures to denounce Christianity, I quote them to clarify what Christianity teaches. I'm tired of seeing it misrepresented by people who are only trying to justify their own lifestyles.

I've read 1st Corinthians, I've read the entire bible. I didn't get my understanding of the bible from webpages. Don't give me webpages, give me biblical text to support your argument. You haven't explained why 1st Corinthians is out of context, but if you don't like that scripture I'll give you another. 

1 Timothy 2:11-15

Also 1 Timothy 3:1-5 .... This one applies to both the role of women and homesexuality. In order to be a leader in the church you must be a "husband of one wife" not a "wife of one husband" or a "husband of one husband." A "husband of one WIFE."

Women are allowed to be ministers. Ministers are people who spread the word to non believers. But they are NOT allowed to be leaders in the congregation. There is simply no way you can rationalize this one based on 1 Timothy 2:11-15 but I would love to see you try.

As for the verse in Romans. I don't know what bible your reading but in every bible I've ever seen it clearly references gay sex as shameful. If Paul simply wanted to say that lust was shameful then he could've simply said that. He goes out of his way to specifically mention lesbian and homosexual sex.

Principles did not change in the new testament. God's principles do NOT change. If you didn't condone homosexuality in the old testament then why would he condone it in the new testament. All scriptures are STILL inspired by God. That is not to say that homosexuals are condemned, but the act of homosexuality IS. No matter how much some people would like to rewrite the bible there is no way around that fact.

yes the bible makes it very clear that men are supposed to be the leader of the household, etc. but as im sure you know men are supposed to be respectful submisive and protective of women



wilco on 21 August 2011
osamanobama said:
wilco said:
sapphi_snake said:
Killiana1a said:

Islam. Is it the eastern version of Mormonism where wannabe alpha males marry submissive wives who want to be abused with their misery condoned by the religious text?

How about the treatment of women wanting to be equal to men, homosexuals wanting to lead a life of dignity and adulterers expressing their marital dissatisfaction in Islam? Why is their misery and death by stoning accepted by the religion while any military movement by Israel is considered justification for jihad?

I have never understood Islam and would love to understand what I consider are gross, unapologetic hypocrisies from those who prescribe to the Islamic faith.

You are aware that christianity was like that not too long ago, right?

It still is. The words in the bible haven't changed. I actually respect modern islam more than modern christianity. Modern christianity doesn't even resemble the christianity outlined in the bible. People just take whichever bits and pieces they like and call it christianity.

According to christianity

- Women are not allowed to speak before the congregation.

quote please, link?

1 Timothy 2:11-15

- Women must cover their heads in the presence of christian males.

its clearly talking about hair, girls are typically supposed to have longer hair than men

If this were the case then verse 5 of that passage would make no sense.

- Homosexuality is condemned.

yes, yes it is. but you arent supposed to hate them

Agreed