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Forums - Politics - Europeon Balanced budget ammendments.

Mr Khan said:
Austerity is, quite frankly, bad for everyone in the short term (though works as a long-term discipline), so this isn't likely to get anywhere


I don't know.  Seems like the options will soon be austerity or leave the euro.

Practically any country "coincidentally" not France or Germany would have to give in because if they left the Euro, their new currency would be worth significantly less then the Euro, and their debts would still be in Euros.



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non-gravity said:
SamuelRSmith said:

 At least, however, by decade's end, the UK will probably be the economic top-dog in Europe. France is crippled by debt (and refusing to do anything about it), Germany is bailing out losers (which is turning them into a loser), and Merkel's/Sarkozy's knee-jerk economic reactions (this new Eurozone plan, banning short-selling, Germany banning nuclear, etc, etc) will fundamentally ruin these countries.

People may hate on David Cameron for "cutting too quickly", but we're on track to have a completely balanced budget by 2015, what other Western countries can claim that? If the Conservatives win a second term, the focus will then be on tax reduction, and the UK will be on its way to being the best place to do business in Europe.

This post sounded positive for the UK, but then I found this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/8473705/UK-has-third-biggest-budget-deficit-in-Europe.html

which sounds like the UK is totally in the gutter


Don't get me wrong, the UK is in a very bad place, right now. That's what happens when you leave the left in control of the country for 12 years. The fundamental difference between the UK, and other European countries, however, is that we now have a full plan to balance the budget over the next 4 years, and so far, has been quite successful at reaching its targets. What other country in Europe can claim that?

The only thing that worries me is if the Conservatives don't win another term... we'll fall straight back into the old policies, again, and the country will be, for use of a better word, fucked.



I've read a couple of analysts or so saying it is Germany and France's gentle way of saying they're getting out if things do not improve very soon, i.e. they're getting out, or making the others get out.

Never thought I'd say this, but seems like the Euro is in it's way out, at least for some if not most countries.



 

 

 

 

 

Machina said:
SamuelRSmith said:
non-gravity said:
SamuelRSmith said:

 At least, however, by decade's end, the UK will probably be the economic top-dog in Europe. France is crippled by debt (and refusing to do anything about it), Germany is bailing out losers (which is turning them into a loser), and Merkel's/Sarkozy's knee-jerk economic reactions (this new Eurozone plan, banning short-selling, Germany banning nuclear, etc, etc) will fundamentally ruin these countries.

People may hate on David Cameron for "cutting too quickly", but we're on track to have a completely balanced budget by 2015, what other Western countries can claim that? If the Conservatives win a second term, the focus will then be on tax reduction, and the UK will be on its way to being the best place to do business in Europe.

This post sounded positive for the UK, but then I found this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/8473705/UK-has-third-biggest-budget-deficit-in-Europe.html

which sounds like the UK is totally in the gutter


Don't get me wrong, the UK is in a very bad place, right now. That's what happens when you leave the left in control of the country for 12 years. The fundamental difference between the UK, and other European countries, however, is that we now have a full plan to balance the budget over the next 4 years, and so far, has been quite successful at reaching its targets. What other country in Europe can claim that?

The only thing that worries me is if the Conservatives don't win another term... we'll fall straight back into the old policies, again, and the country will be, for use of a better word, fucked.


I swear you used to be a left winger; a pro-European one at that. Am I remembering wrong or... what happened?

Haha, I was... about 3 years ago. Then I studied economics.



Machina said:


I swear you used to be a left winger; a pro-European one at that. Am I remembering wrong or... what happened?


I am not Samuel, but your memory is correct. Samuel used to be a left-winger, then he realized some things and is now a hard-right libertarian.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

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haxxiy said:

I've read a couple of analysts or so saying it is Germany and France's gentle way of saying they're getting out if things do not improve very soon, i.e. they're getting out, or making the others get out.

Never thought I'd say this, but seems like the Euro is in it's way out, at least for some if not most countries.

My politicians say that it's much more expensive to blow the Eurozone up than to do what we do now. 

If Italy or Spain collapse however I think it's time to stop.

 

Perhaps then the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Austria and Finland can join Germany in the new Deutsch Mark. Belgium and France will want in but they can go screw themselves.

That would still leave Slovenia, Slovakia and Estonia of which I don't know how well they're doing 



non-gravity said:
haxxiy said:

I've read a couple of analysts or so saying it is Germany and France's gentle way of saying they're getting out if things do not improve very soon, i.e. they're getting out, or making the others get out.

Never thought I'd say this, but seems like the Euro is in it's way out, at least for some if not most countries.

My politicians say that it's much more expensive to blow the Eurozone up than to do what we do now.

If Italy or Spain collapse however I think it's time to stop.

 

Perhaps then the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Austria and Finland can join Germany in the new Deutsch Mark. Belgium and France will want in but they can go screw themselves.

That would still leave Slovenia, Slovakia and Estonia of which I don't know how well they're doing


Wouldn't happen. Germany wanted countries like the PIIGS in the Euro precisely because these countries basically lowered the value of the Euro, which is good for German industry.



SamuelRSmith said:
non-gravity said:
haxxiy said:

I've read a couple of analysts or so saying it is Germany and France's gentle way of saying they're getting out if things do not improve very soon, i.e. they're getting out, or making the others get out.

Never thought I'd say this, but seems like the Euro is in it's way out, at least for some if not most countries.

My politicians say that it's much more expensive to blow the Eurozone up than to do what we do now.

If Italy or Spain collapse however I think it's time to stop.

 

Perhaps then the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Austria and Finland can join Germany in the new Deutsch Mark. Belgium and France will want in but they can go screw themselves.

That would still leave Slovenia, Slovakia and Estonia of which I don't know how well they're doing


Wouldn't happen. Germany wanted countries like the PIIGS in the Euro precisely because these countries basically lowered the value of the Euro, which is good for German industry.

Right. An export-heavy market wants a relatively weak currency, but don't want the economic conditions that generate a weak currency, which is why letting less-advanced prospects in on the Euro was a perfect fit for them.

Really, the only way for Europe to use the Euro as a macroeconomic tool would be to get a yet-deeper level of integration. Otherwise it will prove to be an economic liability given that everyone moves on different cycles



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Mr Khan said:
SamuelRSmith said:
non-gravity said:
haxxiy said:

I've read a couple of analysts or so saying it is Germany and France's gentle way of saying they're getting out if things do not improve very soon, i.e. they're getting out, or making the others get out.

Never thought I'd say this, but seems like the Euro is in it's way out, at least for some if not most countries.

My politicians say that it's much more expensive to blow the Eurozone up than to do what we do now.

If Italy or Spain collapse however I think it's time to stop.

 

Perhaps then the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Austria and Finland can join Germany in the new Deutsch Mark. Belgium and France will want in but they can go screw themselves.

That would still leave Slovenia, Slovakia and Estonia of which I don't know how well they're doing


Wouldn't happen. Germany wanted countries like the PIIGS in the Euro precisely because these countries basically lowered the value of the Euro, which is good for German industry.

Right. An export-heavy market wants a relatively weak currency, but don't want the economic conditions that generate a weak currency, which is why letting less-advanced prospects in on the Euro was a perfect fit for them.


Exactly, the Mark was one of the strongest currencies in the world before Germany moved to the Euro, which traded lower than the Mark exactly thanks to the periphery economies in the group. It also eliminated currency conversion completely between say, Greece and Germany. So, no matter how strong German exports were, the price never changed to the import-reliant Greeks.

Not only did the PIIGS bring down the cost of trading with Germany, but the PIIGS themselves became more and more dependant on Germany. As the ECB kept interest rates low, far lower than what they needed to be in the PIIGS, not enough capital investment occured in these countries, meaning that as their economies grew, all they were doing were buying more and more imports from Germany, rather than ever develop into countries which could export back, and, you know, create competition for German exporters.



RolStoppable said:
Who or what are these pigs?


I can never tell whether you're joking or not, or whether this is some kind of reference. But in case you're serious/other people are wondering:

Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, Spain