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Forums - Politics - USA has the highest incarceration rate. Why?

MARCUSDJACKSON said:
Player1x3 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
DeathToIran24 said:
Too many blacks and latinos.

bad argument

im not sure whether your joking or not, but jail's and prisions in 49 of the 50 states do have 80%-90% minorities in them. its more of a currupt system then then any one race so your statement is highly flaw'd.

 

 

Maybe that's because crime rate is very high between those minority groups?

no dud thats a percentage of minorities as a whole. you knwo everything left if you don't include the majority.

meaning people with the lowest population in the counrty. i could brake it down but the sad truth is that in atlease 47 u.s states most of those minorities are black even with there population droping in most states meaning low birth rate.

maybe i shouldn't be in this thread.

see i'm blinded by an everything is equal mind set, but reality hits me far to often.


This is interesting because FBI files show 69.1 %, of arrests mind you, are white and 28% black.  However no mention of Hispanic so it may be that Hispanics are included with either race. 

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_43.html

 

Either way though it doesn't seem as high as you're saying. 

To another point: somewhere around 70 % of the NFL is black so by your logic the NFL racially profiles black people?



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I always find threads like this interesting. Both from the assumptions that people make and the opinions that are expressed as fact.

Questions: what is the source of the map in the op? Who made these assessments, based on what criteria and how recent is the data? Why are we automatically accepting it as fact?

Statement: the presence of a large police force and judicial system means that "1st" world countries should have higher incarceration rates...they have the man power and the infrastructure to report, catch, sentence and incarcerate criminals the way many third world countries wouldn't. Does that mean that there is no crime in America? Obviously not, and that's not the point I'm trying to make.

Finally...are there really folks who think that privately owned prisons are the cause? Seriously? Unbelievable.



IMO its really a slew of many factors that stack onto eachother.

1. Education. The education system definitely needs reform. Its not doing the best job at teaching young people growing up how to be civilized. Especially in the poor communities. Its leaving people behind in school, because of certain teachers that don't do their job due to "tenure protections" that don't allow the schools to get rid of them. So therefore students start failing and get left behind. Once they become a failure they drop out and become unruly, because society dosn't give them any hope. Look at studies that have been done. There are many failing schools that have a very high drop out rate. This should not be. They need teachers that do their job and care about the students.

2. Numerous Laws and Efficiency of Enforcing them. There are so many laws in the U.S. one factor is the major crackdown on drugs we have in this country. If you get caught with any form of illegal drugs you get sent to prison. Once a person thinks they are a failure to society they no longer want to put forth the effort to change so they just live a life of crime. The U.S. is also has an efficiency at cracking down on crime so they catch more criminals.

3. Lack of Better Counseling measures. A small number of prisoners get put through rigorous counseling to correct them, but very few get what they need. There likely isn't enough attempt to correct the wrong doers. This does however cost the states money/tax dollars, but in the long run it may cost just about the same as it would to continually send that person to prison and provide food, shelter, bed, prison guards, nurses, ect.

4. Lack of Severe Punishments. Think about it. In some countries if you steal you get your hand chopped off. Im not suggesting we go around chopping theives hands off by any means. But what I am suggesting is that we have harsher punishments to deter crimes a bit more. If an individual is tried and proven of raping an individual against their will then that person should be sterilized so that they can no longer reproduce children. If they rape a again then make them into Eunicks. Im not talking full on castration of their sexual organs but this can be done surgically without removing them. This will cause them to no longer have any sexual desires. You may think this is inhumane, well rape is inhumane and there should be severe consequences. Also if they are prooven guilty of murder I believe the death penalty should be more stricktly enforced. Yes I support the death penalty in severe murder cases. Its only right that if you intentionally take the life of an inocent or even a young child for that matter you deserve death.
Increase the severety of punishment and you decrease crime.

And no, crime is not elevated because the U.S. has a lot of guns. If someone is going to commit a crime they are going to use any weapon available weather it be a knife, bat, pipe, or gun. Besides even if the country bans guns that means all the Law abiding citizens will then not have guns and you will have the law breakers getting guns illegally and then you have a situation where the inocent people are less protected. BANNING GUNS IS NOT THE ANSWER. If the country would focus on above points I assure you, incarceration rates would gradually decrease.




kowenicki said:
and you believe the china number do you?

plus... in china... they just execute or make the individual vanish so you arent on any numbers.


Worth noting, China's imprisonment rate apparently about = Canada.

But maybe it is true, maybe they just make room for all those political prisoners by ignoring all the criminals who bother the poor.



Ah... found this.

" Still, it is the length of sentences that truly distinguishes American prison policy. Indeed, the mere number of sentences imposed here would not place the United States at the top of the incarceration lists. If lists were compiled based on annual admissions to prison per capita, several European countries would outpace the United States. But American prison stays are much longer, so the total incarceration rate is higher. ... "Rises and falls in Canada's crime rate have closely paralleled America's for 40 years," Mr. Tonry wrote last year. "But its imprisonment rate has remained stable.""



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maximus22 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
Player1x3 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
DeathToIran24 said:
Too many blacks and latinos.

bad argument

im not sure whether your joking or not, but jail's and prisions in 49 of the 50 states do have 80%-90% minorities in them. its more of a currupt system then then any one race so your statement is highly flaw'd.

 

 

Maybe that's because crime rate is very high between those minority groups?

no dud thats a percentage of minorities as a whole. you knwo everything left if you don't include the majority.

meaning people with the lowest population in the counrty. i could brake it down but the sad truth is that in atlease 47 u.s states most of those minorities are black even with there population droping in most states meaning low birth rate.

maybe i shouldn't be in this thread.

see i'm blinded by an everything is equal mind set, but reality hits me far to often.


This is interesting because FBI files show 69.1 %, of arrests mind you, are white and 28% black.  However no mention of Hispanic so it may be that Hispanics are included with either race. 

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_43.html

 

Either way though it doesn't seem as high as you're saying. 

To another point: somewhere around 70 % of the NFL is black so by your logic the NFL racially profiles black people? no white people and wht ever minories are missing from the NFL. and its more about talent then race. out of context much. jail is not a job but the NFL is. ur way off base here.

yea check afew post back and you'll see theres some conflict with those numbers, and i'm talking about minorities as a whole not just one slice of the pie.

i'm also talking about the percentage in jail.



Most of the blame for the surge in prison population that past few decades can be put on the war on drugs. If we actually tried to treat/help the addicts that want to better themselves instead of throwing them in prison then we would have a better society. Keeping non-violent drug offenders in prison makes zero sense. Legalize the drugs and you would see a drastic drop in USA prison population.  There would also be a drastic drop in crime due to drugs being illegal.  Prohibition doesn't work and the USA should have already learned its' lesson.



MARCUSDJACKSON said:
maximus22 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
Player1x3 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
DeathToIran24 said:
Too many blacks and latinos.

bad argument

im not sure whether your joking or not, but jail's and prisions in 49 of the 50 states do have 80%-90% minorities in them. its more of a currupt system then then any one race so your statement is highly flaw'd.

 

 

Maybe that's because crime rate is very high between those minority groups?

no dud thats a percentage of minorities as a whole. you knwo everything left if you don't include the majority.

meaning people with the lowest population in the counrty. i could brake it down but the sad truth is that in atlease 47 u.s states most of those minorities are black even with there population droping in most states meaning low birth rate.

maybe i shouldn't be in this thread.

see i'm blinded by an everything is equal mind set, but reality hits me far to often.


This is interesting because FBI files show 69.1 %, of arrests mind you, are white and 28% black.  However no mention of Hispanic so it may be that Hispanics are included with either race. 

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_43.html

 

Either way though it doesn't seem as high as you're saying. 

To another point: somewhere around 70 % of the NFL is black so by your logic the NFL racially profiles black people? no white people and wht ever minories are missing from the NFL. and its more about talent then race. out of context much. jail is not a job but the NFL is. ur way off base here.

yea check afew post back and you'll see theres some conflict with those numbers, and i'm talking about minorities as a whole not just one slice of the pie.

i'm also talking about the percentage in jail.


Thank you, I'm aware that the NFL is different from jail.  My point was that instead of looking at the percentage of minorities and shouting racism perhaps we should consider that there may be other factors involved... like talent for example.

And I know theres a conflict that's why I brought it up.



maximus22 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
maximus22 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
Player1x3 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
DeathToIran24 said:
Too many blacks and latinos.

bad argument

im not sure whether your joking or not, but jail's and prisions in 49 of the 50 states do have 80%-90% minorities in them. its more of a currupt system then then any one race so your statement is highly flaw'd.

 

 

Maybe that's because crime rate is very high between those minority groups?

no dud thats a percentage of minorities as a whole. you knwo everything left if you don't include the majority.

meaning people with the lowest population in the counrty. i could brake it down but the sad truth is that in atlease 47 u.s states most of those minorities are black even with there population droping in most states meaning low birth rate.

maybe i shouldn't be in this thread.

see i'm blinded by an everything is equal mind set, but reality hits me far to often.


This is interesting because FBI files show 69.1 %, of arrests mind you, are white and 28% black.  However no mention of Hispanic so it may be that Hispanics are included with either race.

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_43.html

 

Either way though it doesn't seem as high as you're saying.

To another point: somewhere around 70 % of the NFL is black so by your logic the NFL racially profiles black people? no white people and wht ever minories are missing from the NFL. and its more about talent then race. out of context much. jail is not a job but the NFL is. ur way off base here.

yea check afew post back and you'll see theres some conflict with those numbers, and i'm talking about minorities as a whole not just one slice of the pie.

i'm also talking about the percentage in jail.


Thank you, I'm aware that the NFL is different from jail.  My point was that instead of looking at the percentage of minorities and shouting racism perhaps we should consider that there may be other factors involved... like talent for example.

And I know theres a conflict that's why I brought it up.


Indeed, like I said in an earlier post, highly-urbanized areas have higher crime rates all over the world, and the USA has a disproportiante number of minorities living in its inner-cities compared to the rest of the country, therefore, it makes sense if a disproportionate number of prisoners are minorities.



maximus22 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
maximus22 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
Player1x3 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
DeathToIran24 said:
Too many blacks and latinos.

bad argument

im not sure whether your joking or not, but jail's and prisions in 49 of the 50 states do have 80%-90% minorities in them. its more of a currupt system then then any one race so your statement is highly flaw'd.

 

 

Maybe that's because crime rate is very high between those minority groups?

no dud thats a percentage of minorities as a whole. you knwo everything left if you don't include the majority.

meaning people with the lowest population in the counrty. i could brake it down but the sad truth is that in atlease 47 u.s states most of those minorities are black even with there population droping in most states meaning low birth rate.

maybe i shouldn't be in this thread.

see i'm blinded by an everything is equal mind set, but reality hits me far to often.


This is interesting because FBI files show 69.1 %, of arrests mind you, are white and 28% black.  However no mention of Hispanic so it may be that Hispanics are included with either race. 

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_43.html

 

Either way though it doesn't seem as high as you're saying. 

To another point: somewhere around 70 % of the NFL is black so by your logic the NFL racially profiles black people? no white people and wht ever minories are missing from the NFL. and its more about talent then race. out of context much. jail is not a job but the NFL is. ur way off base here.

yea check afew post back and you'll see theres some conflict with those numbers, and i'm talking about minorities as a whole not just one slice of the pie.

i'm also talking about the percentage in jail.


Thank you, I'm aware that the NFL is different from jail.  My point was that instead of looking at the percentage of minorities and shouting racism perhaps we should consider that there may be other factors involved... like talent for example.

And I know theres a conflict that's why I brought it up.

so it take talent to go to jail! nice one!