By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics - Do economic sectors built on prepaid and "pay to play" labor exist? If so, what does it mean?

Mr Khan said:
richardhutnik said:
HappySqurriel said:
 

First off, I suspect that the success rate is far higher than 10%; after all, the people who enter into unpaid internships tend to have little/no experience and even if their internship doesn't become a job they're far more likely to be able to get a job after it is done, and few people who would be particularly bad at commissioned sales would apply for a position that was strictly commission based.

With that said, I don't see how any thing you have mentioned is any worse than people going to University. People spend tens of thousands of dollars and 4 (or more) years working towards building skills they hope will be valued, and there is virtually no direct opportunity for employment from these institutions; and the majority of students are being let down because they're developing skills that are worthless outside of University.

Well, this trend I am talking about looks like it is going to run Universities out of business also.  Once businesses shift to not relying on paper degrees, but other things, universities will have problems.  If you shift to where it is boom or bust, then you dont' have a middle class.  All that is left is for businesses to stop using them as filters for people, and they have big problems on their hands.  No one is going to borrow a ton of money just to buy a lottery ticket in hopes maybe they can land a middle class lifestyle.

As far as 10%, how many you think make good money on the internet?  I would say about 10% as being reasonable.  I speak of YouTube stars.  90% is just make no money place.  The thing about the Internet is that it scales.  You end up either doing real well, or end up not making it.  There isn't room for the middle in it at all.  That is because of the viral effect that leads to things breaking out.  And because of the scaling, a small team can end up doing a lot.  Once you hit it, you hit it, like the Epic Meal Time guys or Equals 3.

A college degree is still hugely important, and should not be underestimated. Try getting an internship somewhere important without being in college, or try getting a real job somewhere without some sort of higher education degree (needn't be college necessarily, but technical school, vocational something or other, but it has to be something). The only thing that this might be doing is forcing change on the traditional college experience to push for something more streamlined and cut down on things like the classics and philosophy, which have been on the downslide in universities anyway...

While there are many degree fields that increase a person's career prospects, the majority of degrees do far less to get a person a job than one of these unpaid internships will ... This is why it was recently reported that 85% of new college graduates move back in with their parents, 54% are unemployed, and most of those who are employed are "under-employed" (because they are doing a job which doesn't require a degree).



Around the Network
HappySqurriel said:
Mr Khan said:

A college degree is still hugely important, and should not be underestimated. Try getting an internship somewhere important without being in college, or try getting a real job somewhere without some sort of higher education degree (needn't be college necessarily, but technical school, vocational something or other, but it has to be something). The only thing that this might be doing is forcing change on the traditional college experience to push for something more streamlined and cut down on things like the classics and philosophy, which have been on the downslide in universities anyway...

While there are many degree fields that increase a person's career prospects, the majority of degrees do far less to get a person a job than one of these unpaid internships will ... This is why it was recently reported that 85% of new college graduates move back in with their parents, 54% are unemployed, and most of those who are employed are "under-employed" (because they are doing a job which doesn't require a degree).

Yes, but try getting a meaningful internship without being in college. And just because you don't get a job immediately out of college is no reason to discredit degrees, as you likely will find a job, and your degree is going to have something to do with that



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

HappySqurriel said:
Mr Khan said:
richardhutnik said:
HappySqurriel said:
 

First off, I suspect that the success rate is far higher than 10%; after all, the people who enter into unpaid internships tend to have little/no experience and even if their internship doesn't become a job they're far more likely to be able to get a job after it is done, and few people who would be particularly bad at commissioned sales would apply for a position that was strictly commission based.

With that said, I don't see how any thing you have mentioned is any worse than people going to University. People spend tens of thousands of dollars and 4 (or more) years working towards building skills they hope will be valued, and there is virtually no direct opportunity for employment from these institutions; and the majority of students are being let down because they're developing skills that are worthless outside of University.

Well, this trend I am talking about looks like it is going to run Universities out of business also.  Once businesses shift to not relying on paper degrees, but other things, universities will have problems.  If you shift to where it is boom or bust, then you dont' have a middle class.  All that is left is for businesses to stop using them as filters for people, and they have big problems on their hands.  No one is going to borrow a ton of money just to buy a lottery ticket in hopes maybe they can land a middle class lifestyle.

As far as 10%, how many you think make good money on the internet?  I would say about 10% as being reasonable.  I speak of YouTube stars.  90% is just make no money place.  The thing about the Internet is that it scales.  You end up either doing real well, or end up not making it.  There isn't room for the middle in it at all.  That is because of the viral effect that leads to things breaking out.  And because of the scaling, a small team can end up doing a lot.  Once you hit it, you hit it, like the Epic Meal Time guys or Equals 3.

A college degree is still hugely important, and should not be underestimated. Try getting an internship somewhere important without being in college, or try getting a real job somewhere without some sort of higher education degree (needn't be college necessarily, but technical school, vocational something or other, but it has to be something). The only thing that this might be doing is forcing change on the traditional college experience to push for something more streamlined and cut down on things like the classics and philosophy, which have been on the downslide in universities anyway...

While there are many degree fields that increase a person's career prospects, the majority of degrees do far less to get a person a job than one of these unpaid internships will ... This is why it was recently reported that 85% of new college graduates move back in with their parents, 54% are unemployed, and most of those who are employed are "under-employed" (because they are doing a job which doesn't require a degree).

A big problem, relating to employment and college, is that employers have, without thinking, used college degrees as an overpriced filtering device to cut down resumes.  While one can say it is "very important" to an individual to have one, because it makes them more compettive, if the job opportunities end up being where you don't need the degree and employer doesn't even list it as a need, it ends up a problem, MAINLY due to the debt load needed.  But also, on some very low level jobs, having the college degree could work against you landing a position.

When I said what I said, I am not saying it is wrong per-se to have, or people are best without it.  Just the costs are such that it could increasingly prove not to have it.  If you are just looking at a college degree, it very likely might be best people do jump into the job market, and then take college on the side, IF they can find anything.  Having a college degree without work experience will do little to change anything at this point actually.  And college is a VERY expensive place to find oneself.  



Duplicate post... ignore.

 



Businesses that take advantage of user generate content: Youtube!!!

The content put on youtube is a cost for anyone putting up the content. There are millions of videos, which is essentially years worth of unpaid work hours. However, if you do get popular enough you can share revenue from advertising.

You mentioned journalism. Huffington post is an example of a very low paid labour. The amount authors get paid for each article really deflates the value of a journalist.


Online Social Networking sites are a type of unpaid work for solo or small business entrepreneurs. Having an active blog, twitter or whatever is essentially advertising for you. It's essentially unpaid. Most comedians have twitters accounts now in order to grow their followers. They giving away free jokes!



Around the Network
silicon said:
Businesses that take advantage of user generate content: Youtube!!!

The content put on youtube is a cost for anyone putting up the content. There are millions of videos, which is essentially years worth of unpaid work hours. However, if you do get popular enough you can share revenue from advertising.

You mentioned journalism. Huffington post is an example of a very low paid labour. The amount authors get paid for each article really deflates the value of a journalist.

Online Social Networking sites are a type of unpaid work for solo or small business entrepreneurs. Having an active blog, twitter or whatever is essentially advertising for you. It's essentially unpaid. Most comedians have twitters accounts now in order to grow their followers. They giving away free jokes!

And this is the concern I am talking about.  If you get a flood of free content out there, because they have to, one has to wonder what the future holds.  If all the growth resembles what goes on Second Life, have to wonder who makes a living.  You will end up people saying, "Well a number of people make six figures doing this!"  What number?  If this increases to more and more areas, then what is left?

Well, from my end, considering all I have gone through, I happened to have resolved I will just keep producing content, paid or not, until I end up with so little lack of resources I can't produce anything.  But I will still, if I have pen and paper, still crank out games until I can't any longer.  In this world, you really reevaluate everything and money stops being a motivation to do stuff.  If that shift happens, I wonder what happens to those who follow normal economic rules for how supply and demand works.



Mr Khan said:
HappySqurriel said:
Mr Khan said:
 

A college degree is still hugely important, and should not be underestimated. Try getting an internship somewhere important without being in college, or try getting a real job somewhere without some sort of higher education degree (needn't be college necessarily, but technical school, vocational something or other, but it has to be something). The only thing that this might be doing is forcing change on the traditional college experience to push for something more streamlined and cut down on things like the classics and philosophy, which have been on the downslide in universities anyway...

While there are many degree fields that increase a person's career prospects, the majority of degrees do far less to get a person a job than one of these unpaid internships will ... This is why it was recently reported that 85% of new college graduates move back in with their parents, 54% are unemployed, and most of those who are employed are "under-employed" (because they are doing a job which doesn't require a degree).

Yes, but try getting a meaningful internship without being in college. And just because you don't get a job immediately out of college is no reason to discredit degrees, as you likely will find a job, and your degree is going to have something to do with that

Just to get back to my original point ...

Much like choosing to "work for free" people choose to go to college because they believe that the short term economic downside will translate into greater long term prospects. While the majority of people who choose unpaid internships may not get immediate benefit from them, between those who don't complete college and those who choose useless degrees the vast majority of people who choose college don't get an immediate benefit from them; and those who choose an unpaid internship trade a year's worth of labour for a year's worth of skills development, while a college student pays close to a year's worth of salary for a year's worth of skills development.

The point isn't that "college is bad" (after all I have two university degrees), the point is that everything that is that a college education and an upaid internship are essentially the same; and you can't say one is good while the other is bad.



HappySqurriel said:
Mr Khan said:
HappySqurriel said:
Mr Khan said:
 

A college degree is still hugely important, and should not be underestimated. Try getting an internship somewhere important without being in college, or try getting a real job somewhere without some sort of higher education degree (needn't be college necessarily, but technical school, vocational something or other, but it has to be something). The only thing that this might be doing is forcing change on the traditional college experience to push for something more streamlined and cut down on things like the classics and philosophy, which have been on the downslide in universities anyway...

While there are many degree fields that increase a person's career prospects, the majority of degrees do far less to get a person a job than one of these unpaid internships will ... This is why it was recently reported that 85% of new college graduates move back in with their parents, 54% are unemployed, and most of those who are employed are "under-employed" (because they are doing a job which doesn't require a degree).

Yes, but try getting a meaningful internship without being in college. And just because you don't get a job immediately out of college is no reason to discredit degrees, as you likely will find a job, and your degree is going to have something to do with that

Just to get back to my original point ...

Much like choosing to "work for free" people choose to go to college because they believe that the short term economic downside will translate into greater long term prospects. While the majority of people who choose unpaid internships may not get immediate benefit from them, between those who don't complete college and those who choose useless degrees the vast majority of people who choose college don't get an immediate benefit from them; and those who choose an unpaid internship trade a year's worth of labour for a year's worth of skills development, while a college student pays close to a year's worth of salary for a year's worth of skills development.

The point isn't that "college is bad" (after all I have two university degrees), the point is that everything that is that a college education and an upaid internship are essentially the same; and you can't say one is good while the other is bad.

I'm not saying the other is bad either. I did a for-credit semester's internship in DC, and most colleges recommend at least one semester of internship, and try to push more in business degrees (though i'm IR, and way outside the business school), i've just noticed this trend from some who try to poo-poo the whole notion of having to go to college, when if anything, economics and the demand for skilled professional labor says that more people should be going to college than already are...



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Mr Khan said:
HappySqurriel said:
Mr Khan said:
HappySqurriel said:
Mr Khan said:
 

A college degree is still hugely important, and should not be underestimated. Try getting an internship somewhere important without being in college, or try getting a real job somewhere without some sort of higher education degree (needn't be college necessarily, but technical school, vocational something or other, but it has to be something). The only thing that this might be doing is forcing change on the traditional college experience to push for something more streamlined and cut down on things like the classics and philosophy, which have been on the downslide in universities anyway...

While there are many degree fields that increase a person's career prospects, the majority of degrees do far less to get a person a job than one of these unpaid internships will ... This is why it was recently reported that 85% of new college graduates move back in with their parents, 54% are unemployed, and most of those who are employed are "under-employed" (because they are doing a job which doesn't require a degree).

Yes, but try getting a meaningful internship without being in college. And just because you don't get a job immediately out of college is no reason to discredit degrees, as you likely will find a job, and your degree is going to have something to do with that

Just to get back to my original point ...

Much like choosing to "work for free" people choose to go to college because they believe that the short term economic downside will translate into greater long term prospects. While the majority of people who choose unpaid internships may not get immediate benefit from them, between those who don't complete college and those who choose useless degrees the vast majority of people who choose college don't get an immediate benefit from them; and those who choose an unpaid internship trade a year's worth of labour for a year's worth of skills development, while a college student pays close to a year's worth of salary for a year's worth of skills development.

The point isn't that "college is bad" (after all I have two university degrees), the point is that everything that is that a college education and an upaid internship are essentially the same; and you can't say one is good while the other is bad.

I'm not saying the other is bad either. I did a for-credit semester's internship in DC, and most colleges recommend at least one semester of internship, and try to push more in business degrees (though i'm IR, and way outside the business school), i've just noticed this trend from some who try to poo-poo the whole notion of having to go to college, when if anything, economics and the demand for skilled professional labor says that more people should be going to college than already are...


Personally, I'm not against college in general but I think a large portion of college students are wasting their time, money and efforts to get a degree that is (more or less) worthless. In fact, there are even college degrees I believe are detrimental to a person's employment prospects because they’re not respected by employers who require a college education and they make a candidate over-qualified for many careers that don’t require a college degree.



Obama's stimulus seemed more like a grant to job's to hire while bush's seemed more like a spending incentive for Americans to spend money.

IMO