By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics - What do you think about the California Secession idea?

 

Do you support the two-state solution in California?

Yes - Two states are better than one! 27 39.13%
 
No - Two states is the wrong idea, period. 19 27.54%
 
No - The counties picked ... 0 0%
 
Just two states? Make it three! 9 13.04%
 
I just want to see the answer! 14 20.29%
 
Total:69
mrstickball said:
Wonktonodi said:
mrstickball said:

IMO, its a very interesting idea, and pretty cool. California is incredibly large with a very polar population. Although the state is 60-65% democrat, it is due to two areas - SF and LA. The rest of the state is a bit more Republican and mixed like the rest of the west. The new state would have about 1/3rd the population and economy, and would be about 50/50 republican and democrat. Additionally, it'd force both sides to deal with the taxation and budgetary issues. The heavily Democratic state would have a supermajority and could likely reach whatever budgetary decision they wanted to without interference, while the new state can strike out on its own and fix some of the woeful laws that the current state has (which require a public vote on tax increases - and of course, they never pass).


it's not that it takes a public vote for tax increases that is crazy. It's that it takes a 2/3ds majority to pass them. So they can be done by the legislature as well, just not when all republicans vow to never increase taxes ever under any circumstances. Democrats are justa little shy of 2/3 majority in both houses. 2 Votes short.

I see. That is just as bad IMO...It'd sound like splitting the state would ensure that CA lawmakers could then raise taxes as needed.

In many ways it's worse.  Splitting te state might be a good idea but I'm not so sure the proposed split is the best idea



Around the Network

If it improves the economy over there then sure.



           

Bong Lover said:
I currently live in what would be part of the 'conservative' California. If such a split was to happen I would most likely need to move a few miles to get out.

I find it incredibly ironic that the people suggesting this doesn't realize (or do they realize, they just hate having money?) that their part of California to a large part is feeding off the real money generating areas of the state, which would pretty much all be part of the 'liberal' California.

I haven't closely studied the figures myself so my assumption could be wrong, but I suspect that many people in "conservative California" would argue that the punitive regulatory regime and high taxes imposed on them by "liberal California" were artificially holding them back; and potentially propping up "liberal California".

Hypothetically speaking, if this was the case you would expect to see the "wealthy" half of California struggle post-split with the "poor" part of California thriving.



I dont think splitting is ever a good solution because it would only lead to more and more splits. How long before other states with similar demographics split as well? PA outside the Philadelphia region is republican while the area around Philly is highly democrat for an example...how long before we follow suit? In fact, how long before the south tries to secede again? The way I see it, it's better to have both competing parties in a state that absolute party domination...that way there are actual checks and balances.



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

HappySqurriel said:
Bong Lover said:
I currently live in what would be part of the 'conservative' California. If such a split was to happen I would most likely need to move a few miles to get out.

I find it incredibly ironic that the people suggesting this doesn't realize (or do they realize, they just hate having money?) that their part of California to a large part is feeding off the real money generating areas of the state, which would pretty much all be part of the 'liberal' California.

I haven't closely studied the figures myself so my assumption could be wrong, but I suspect that many people in "conservative California" would argue that the punitive regulatory regime and high taxes imposed on them by "liberal California" were artificially holding them back; and potentially propping up "liberal California".

Hypothetically speaking, if this was the case you would expect to see the "wealthy" half of California struggle post-split with the "poor" part of California thriving.

California's socioeconomic condition is a lot more broad than that.

The conservative area has, bar none, the best agricultural sector in the world. Period. 365 growing days a year. It is America's veggie basket as one county produces 75% of the world's output for artichokes. As stated, I think the conservative side would re-align regulations to get their mining sector back in order which would benefit the new state significantly. Remember, this new proposed state would have a $260 billion economy - larger than Finland.

Likewise, the rest of CA would still have the massive movie and tech sectors which are big in their economy. Sillicon valley is still a major force, albiet waining, and SF is a major hub of internet startups which yields massive amounts of growth and capital. However, one wonders what their taxation and spending model would be like. CA is notorious for welfare, and I question how it would handle being split up - if the liberal part would continue with its bread & circus act, or if it would finally find the cojones to deal with that area of its spending problem. Likewise, taxation would be interesting. At any rate, a split would yield an interesting case study to see what happens. Could be the start of a lot more splits which could be good for America. There are about 3-4 other movements to split states up along cultural divides, which could benefit the nation as we could decentralize government further.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

Around the Network
Pristine20 said:
I dont think splitting is ever a good solution because it would only lead to more and more splits. How long before other states with similar demographics split as well? PA outside the Philadelphia region is republican while the area around Philly is highly democrat for an example...how long before we follow suit? In fact, how long before the south tries to secede again? The way I see it, it's better to have both competing parties in a state that absolute party domination...that way there are actual checks and balances.


This is the main reason many states need to split ...

Because one political ideology has a strong majority of the population in a region it means that the views of the minority are being completely ignored in both state and federal elections. If you split a completely uncompetitive state (like California) into multiple states that each are far more competitive the net result should be better governance for everyone in those newly competitive states.



Pristine20 said:
I dont think splitting is ever a good solution because it would only lead to more and more splits. How long before other states with similar demographics split as well? PA outside the Philadelphia region is republican while the area around Philly is highly democrat for an example...how long before we follow suit? In fact, how long before the south tries to secede again? The way I see it, it's better to have both competing parties in a state that absolute party domination...that way there are actual checks and balances.


I think the main problem, though, is that CA is in such a mess, the entire state of 30 million plus people is going to go down like a sinking ship. Their laws are an absolute mess, and no one has the willpower to fix anything whatsoever. Therefore, the question becomes: Does California and everyone go down the drain, or those that made and supported the current mess?

As HS has said, splitting along political divides may be a good thing. If you do such a thing, then you allow various ideologies to be fully vetted. Hyper-liberal areas and hyper-conservative regions can finally make policies as they see fit, and allow for more rapid prototyping of different governmental models. Not every state needs to split, but I think there are a lot of states like CA, Washington, Oregon, Texas, New York, and a few others that could potentially benefit from it, as their demographics are not similar in distribution.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

I say, let them do it.

Then we'll be up to the 57 states that Obama visited for sure.



Pristine20 said:
I dont think splitting is ever a good solution because it would only lead to more and more splits. How long before other states with similar demographics split as well? PA outside the Philadelphia region is republican while the area around Philly is highly democrat for an example...how long before we follow suit? In fact, how long before the south tries to secede again? The way I see it, it's better to have both competing parties in a state that absolute party domination...that way there are actual checks and balances.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr3ftmvO7Oc



I think it wouldn't work... only because they'd never be able to agree to how much of California's crushing debt they'd have to keep.

Interestingly Texas has the right to split into 5 states at anytime they want.

 

By the title I thought it was about ejecting California from the USA, so when they fail it'd be more isolated like Ireland, instead of something like Greece.



People think the current defaults a problems?  Just wait till the 8th largest economy in the world defaults (California.)

They can't figure out what to cut, and the few things they do cut are the last things you'd want to... and they can't really raise taxes since buisnesses are leaving 5 or so a week as it is... even some democrats are saying no new taxes.