By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics - Circumcision ban getting people snippy.

sapphi_snake said:

@DélioPT:

You can`t treat the "if" like it`s real.

For the sake of this discussion, you should.

You didn`t understand my words. Saying that i respect one`s practices, be it religious or not, is one thing. Not taking into consideration why i respect it is jumping ahead of yourself. And that makes you not understand what respect means.

So you admit that you would "respect" virgin sacrifices if they were a religious practice, right?

What i try to say is that parents have a big influence on their kids, physically and emotionally. Talking about this medical procedure as mutilation is taking it out of proportions, way out of proportions. People do it for medical reasons and others for religious reasons aswell. I respect that, you don`t.

There's a difference between downright mutilation, and forcing somthing on someone. Also, I know people do it for medical reasons. I'm circumcised myself, because I had phimosis. In my case it was a MEDICAL NECESSITY, which is the only valid reason to circumcise an infant. An adult can get a circumcision for whatever reason he wants, however this practice should not be forced on an infant, unless it's a medical emergency. It's a violation of a child's body otherwise.

BTW, female circumcision is a religious practice in some places. Do you respect that practice?


No you shouldn`t. It`s not fair to do so.

"So you admit that you would "respect" virgin sacrifices if they were a religious practice, right?"
God doesn`t sacrifice people. God sacrificed Himself through Jesus. That`s my answer.

"There's a difference between downright mutilation, and forcing somthing on someone. Also, I know people do it for medical reasons. I'm circumcised myself, because I had phimosis. In my case it was a MEDICAL NECESSITY, which is the only valid reason to circumcise an infant. An adult can get a circumcision for whatever reason he wants, however this practice should not be forced on an infant, unless it's a medical emergency. It's a violation of a child's body otherwise."
I understand that to you it`s a body violation, but to others it`s not and they do it for reaons that they see as good aswell. If you don`t believe or follow religions that you`ll never accept their premise.

Female circumcision is a religious practice to what religions? I don`t even know why they do it.



Around the Network

@DélioPT:

God doesn`t sacrifice people. God sacrificed Himself through Jesus. That`s my answer.

This certainly isn't an answer to my question. obviously, you don't want to show how utterly ridiculous and contradicting your beliefs are.

I understand that to you it`s a body violation, but to others it`s not and they do it for reaons that they see as good aswell. If you don`t believe or follow religions that you`ll never accept their premise.

Forcing circumcision one someone who doesn't need it without thei consent IS A VIOLATION, and it's  not just my opinion, but something that's according to the principles of our society.

Female circumcision is a religious practice to what religions? I don`t even know why they do it.

African religions. You respect those too, no?



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:

@DélioPT:

God doesn`t sacrifice people. God sacrificed Himself through Jesus. That`s my answer.

This certainly isn't an answer to my question. obviously, you don't want to show how utterly ridiculous and contradicting your beliefs are.

I understand that to you it`s a body violation, but to others it`s not and they do it for reaons that they see as good aswell. If you don`t believe or follow religions that you`ll never accept their premise.

Forcing circumcision one someone who doesn't need it without thei consent IS A VIOLATION, and it's  not just my opinion, but something that's according to the principles of our society.

Female circumcision is a religious practice to what religions? I don`t even know why they do it.

African religions. You respect those too, no?


Let me try to a bit more precise on my words. When i say respect, i don`t mean accept or agree, as i said before. I respect the right for everyone to speak their mind, that doesn`t mean i will agree with them. As you know from past talks how this is true to me. In that way, i will only agree to something if it`s in accordance to God - or God`s will. So, speaking of your virgin sacrifices, i wouldn`t agree and i don`t see a reason to discuss it in that matter, as it isn`t a real subject. It`s is an "IF" and for that i gave you that answer.

For Christians this procedure isn`t necessary since the "real" circumcision to us is no longer a bodly thing, it`s a spiritual circumcision that Jesus initiated with the Baptism. Yet, i still "respect"/accept jew`s ways as they are connected to God.

What i mean is, i can and will agree under one condition: how it is related to God.
Of course, for those who don`t believe, they won`t see a reason for that. But what all religious people who believe, i ask for comprehension and not to jump to using words like mutilation and body violation, because those are words and feelings that speak more than this explicit reality.

About female circumcision. Honestly, they may share the same terminology but even the effects are completely different, as you may know. I also believe that is more cultural than religious.



DélioPT said:


Of course, for those who don`t believe, they won`t see a reason for that. But what all religious people who believe, i ask for comprehension and not to jump to using words like mutilation and body violation, because those are words and feelings that speak more than this explicit reality.

 

It's a perfect way to describe this procedure, when done for anything other than medical emergencies (on infants of course, as adutls can get a circumcision for whatever reason they want). The problem is that you simpoly have no respect for other people's rights.

Also, you still didn't answer if you'd RESPECT the act of virgin sacrifices, if it were areligious practice (the fact that it's a hypothetical scenario is irrelevant, the purpose is to see how far you would go).



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:
DélioPT said:


Of course, for those who don`t believe, they won`t see a reason for that. But what all religious people who believe, i ask for comprehension and not to jump to using words like mutilation and body violation, because those are words and feelings that speak more than this explicit reality.

 

It's a perfect way to describe this procedure, when done for anything other than medical emergencies (on infants of course, as adutls can get a circumcision for whatever reason they want). The problem is that you simpoly have no respect for other people's rights.

Also, you still didn't answer if you'd RESPECT the act of virgin sacrifices, if it were areligious practice (the fact that it's a hypothetical scenario is irrelevant, the purpose is to see how far you would go).

I do respect other people`s rights and you know that. I may not see eye to eye with you on this - again - but i do care. What you are not seeing here is that if you look at the big picture no one is an absolute defender of people`s rights. Why? Because everyone has a vision of the world that sooner or later will "touch" other people`s rights.

I said this "o, speaking of your virgin sacrifices, i wouldn`t agree". Why i didn`t use the word respect, i`ll explain.
I rarely use that word for a single reason: i don`t use that idea for myself or for my way of being. I either agree with something or don`t. I never put myself the question if it`s something to respect or not. It`s just not my way of dealing with issues or life in general. Might seem semanthics to you, but to me it`s not.
It´s almost like asking me about Hitler and if i respected him, i probably wouldn`t use that "respect" conotation as it`s not me.

If a religious practice were to do that, i will say i don`t agree because it`s how i feel. Should you want, you can replace it with i "can`t respect it". But as i said, it wouldn`t be my way of expressing myself.



Around the Network

@DélioPT:

I do respect other people`s rights and you know that.

No, I don't know this. How could I?

Because everyone has a vision of the world that sooner or later will "touch" other people`s rights.

This is only true if you extend people's rights to absolute (which would include the right to interfere with other people's rights). If you draw the line at intefering with other people's rights, you have a might good ideology, one which you do not have.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:

@DélioPT:

I do respect other people`s rights and you know that.

No, I don't know this. How could I?

Because everyone has a vision of the world that sooner or later will "touch" other people`s rights.

This is only true if you extend people's rights to absolute (which would include the right to interfere with other people's rights). If you draw the line at intefering with other people's rights, you have a might good ideology, one which you do not have.


You know my religious view. From that you can draw honest conclusions. Actually, i said before that everyone is born a free thinking person and free - in other threads.
One day you will realize that even you will find something wrong while others see it as right.
i always say your freedom ends where the other one starts. But no one can fully leave to that ideal, it`s just not possible, for one reason or another.



DélioPT said:
sapphi_snake said:

@DélioPT:

I do respect other people`s rights and you know that.

No, I don't know this. How could I?

Because everyone has a vision of the world that sooner or later will "touch" other people`s rights.

This is only true if you extend people's rights to absolute (which would include the right to interfere with other people's rights). If you draw the line at intefering with other people's rights, you have a might good ideology, one which you do not have.


You know my religious view. From that you can draw honest conclusions. Actually, i said before that everyone is born a free thinking person and free - in other threads.
One day you will realize that even you will find something wrong while others see it as right.
i always say your freedom ends where the other one starts. But no one can fully leave to that ideal, it`s just not possible, for one reason or another.

It's quite possible. The only people who say otherwise are authoritarian people who don't much care for freedom.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:

It's quite possible. The only people who say otherwise are authoritarian people who don't much care for freedom.


It`s a point of view. I don`t see that way, but it`s a point of view!



DélioPT said:
sapphi_snake said:
 

It's quite possible. The only people who say otherwise are authoritarian people who don't much care for freedom.


It`s a point of view. I don`t see that way, but it`s a point of view!

Relativism doesn't really help you in thelong run.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)