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Forums - Gaming - NGP Project Cafe cross platform games

 

NGP Project Cafe cross platform games

Yes most 3rd party games ... 60 29.70%
 
It will happen but won't... 39 19.31%
 
Hardly any games will be cross platform 42 20.79%
 
There will be none 17 8.42%
 
See results 44 21.78%
 
Total:202
Play4Fun said:
zarx said:
Play4Fun said:

*Sigh*

Sorry about the raging. I guess I was pissed off.

There is no reason for Nintendo to use a low-end R700, especially with what they are trying to achieve.

I follow NeoGAF.  They may be elitist but they know what they are talking about and the information I got from their numerous Cafe threads go against your theory.

Here is IGN's recent article where they try to guess the console's hardware based on info from their sources.

If the console where to be similar to that, it would be able to pump out games much better than what PS360 offer and would be able to get down-ports from PS4/720.


That IGN article displays if I may use the way overused IGNorance term ignorance. They are obviusly making stuff up with the 1080p and stereo 3D as people at Nintendo have made it clear that 3D won't be utalised on Cafe IIRC not at launch anyway. And the very fact that Nintendo are using the outdated R700 chipset pretty clearly suggests that they are not going for a powerhouse console especially if they want a compact fan-less design. If they wanted a console more than twice as powerful as the 360 they should have gone for the vastly superior R800 series which offers both more performance per watt compaired to the R700 series but also the addition of a hardware tesselator which is the most significant advancement in GPU technology since the unified shader architecture that got it's mainstream debut in the 360's GPU, tesselation is going to be a major factor in next generation graphics as shown in the Unreal engine next gen Samaritan demo. The very fact that Nintendo are opting for a GPU that doesn't have that feature will probably be the reason the 3rd parties use to not port next gen titles to Cafe, oh and if that 512MB of RAM rumour is true... Well lets just say I really hope they have at least 1GB total.

To be honest I would love for me and the rumours to be wrong and for the Cafe to be a significant jump but all evidence points the other way...


ROfL...you know what? Forget it. You think next gen consoles are going to be running the Samaritan demo, which had trouble running on three  580s. What's Sony and MS going to do? Use one of those big, hot  expensive GPUs on the market and put a cooling system in a console the size of a PC tower?

Do you know how big and hot the really high end PGUs on the market are today? Do you know how much power they draw? You may be a PC gamer but when it comes to putting tech into consoles, you obviously don't know how it works. It's not the same as putting parts into a PC.

Sony and MS are not going to be looking to launch at $500 plus with unreliable hardware that loses them tons of profits. A repeat of the beginning of this gen is not appealing to them, especially Sony.

Sony and MS are going to launch a year or two after Nintendo, MS a year, Sony might hold back for 18 months or 2 years. There is NO feasible tech they can use for consoles lauching in that time-frame that could slaughter a high-end R700 GPU. The gap is going to be so much much smaller next gen.

NExt gen is going to be like DC/PS2/GC/Xbox kind of power gap.

Edit: And about the 1080 P and 3D thing. Most rumours have said it will do 1080 and what Nintendo said is the console's focus will not be 3D. The console will support 3D just like GC and Wii did. 3D is mostly a software thing and not hardware.

Edit 2: One more thing, a high-end R700 in a closed environment is capable of much more than one in an open environment. And the GPU is being optimised, which means Nintendo can add support for DX11 and tesselation to it. That's how console hardware works. You are thinking in terms of PC, for consoles it's different.

talk about reading comprehension fail I said Tesselation as shown in the Samaritan demo, tessellation =/= Samaritan demo. Tessellation is a technology that allows more detailed geometry to be procedurally generated on the fly which allows more complex models to be shown with less of a performance hit and less work from artists, it also allows for procedural water geometry and dynamic damage models among other things. The Samaritan demo is just a widely known example of a use of the technology in case you weren't familiar with the tech. 

here are some examples of it's use

As for next gen being able to run the Samaritan demo yes it will because that is what Epic have set the bar at and just like the 360 doubling the RAM at least MS will go out of their way to make sure that they keep Epic happy. The demo with everything turned up to 11 at 60 fps 1080p unoptimised on windows may require 3 GTX 580 to run smothly but once it is hard coded and optimised for specific hardware it won't even need a 5th of the prcessing power even less if they drop some of the tessellation and AA and go to 30fps. Add in the fact that MS&Sony won't launch their consoles before late 2013 so they will have access to GPUs 2-3 generations beyond what is available today and you shouldn't even have to go above the 360's TDP and as long as they don't use any exotic tech like Cell prccessors, next gen disc formats or RAMBUS memory then is shouldn't cost to much ether. 

Next gen MS/Sony consoles's will be a big jump because as I have said before they have no other choice as graphics advance you need bigger jumps in power to push resaults that are noticably better. That is the reason many people think that this generation was a smaller jump in graphics than the last jump and why some people fing the Samaritan demo unimpressive. And if the casual observer can't tell that there is a big jump in the level of games that can be played then there is no reason to launch a next gen console. If you ask if people if they want next gen consoles most will say no and that they are happy with the PS360 and to convince people that they need to upgrade to the next gen they will need to see something amazing. That is why 2013 is the soonest we will see MS or Sony's next console because they are waiting for the time when they can affordably make a jump in power that will make Uncharted 2 and Gears of War 3 look crude and last gen.

Rumours on 1080p have been mixed at best and them not fucusing on 3D means they won't push for it at least at launch so IGN talking about the hardware's 3D capabilities is stupid that was the point.

A console GPU is no more capabable then a desktop counterpart with the same specs it's just that being able to directly access the hardware and tailor software to the hardware means the developers can get better resaults. And while Nintendo could spend a lot of money retooling a R700 core to add features like Tessellation but that would be a stupid waste of money considering that there is a pre exisiting proven GPU core design already created that is more power effeciant and supports many more features (most of which would be cut for a console tho as hardware video transcoding isn't an important feature on a console) if they wanted the extra tech they would have used a R800 core they didn't and they haven't.



@TheVoxelman on twitter

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HappySqurriel said:
zarx said:

yup just look at the performance of those R700 GPUs truly they blow the PS360 out of the water with their awsome...

being a R700 tells us very little as the series ranges from far less than the 360s GPU to over 8x in some metrics 


The bottom end R700 is (roughly) equal to the HD console's GPUs ... But why would you expect Nintendo to use an unmodified version of the worst R700 processor?

Being that these GPUs were originally manufacturered using a 55nm process and the chip in Nintendo's next console will likely use a 28nm (or smaller) process, what benefit is there for Nintendo to choose the low end version? The RV790XT/RV770XT (HD4890/HD4870) would already be inexpensive and energy efficient enough to produce a small affordable console, why would Nintendo choose the RV710 (HD4550/ HD4350)?

 

Actually the bottom end is half as powerful on paper the 360's GPU was a beast at the time ahead of even high end GPUs at the time. 

they won't use any specific card they will use a custom chip bassed on the R700 architecture and there is no knowing how powerful it will be exept for the rumours I have already pointed out. 



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

Silver-Tiger said:

So to get this straight:

Project Café will undoubtely stronger than both the PS3 and the X360, and we already know NGP will not even have PS3 level of power (what ridiculous rumors these were...), and will most likely have a new controlling scheme, and still you expect cross-platform games between NGP and Café?


Yeas because the PSP being may time weaker than the PS2 and Wii stopped all those sports games being ports of each other and games like Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories and Silent Hill: Shattered memories eh? I am not saying they will look the same or run the same but games can still be ported even if the NGP version is down resed doesn't use AA and has smaller draw distance and the PS3/Cafe version has a lot of extra content...



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

zarx said:
Silver-Tiger said:

So to get this straight:

Project Café will undoubtely stronger than both the PS3 and the X360, and we already know NGP will not even have PS3 level of power (what ridiculous rumors these were...), and will most likely have a new controlling scheme, and still you expect cross-platform games between NGP and Café?


Yeas because the PSP being may time weaker than the PS2 and Wii stopped all those sports games being ports of each other and games like Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories and Silent Hill: Shattered memories eh? I am not saying they will look the same or run the same but games can still be ported even if the NGP version is down resed doesn't use AA and has smaller draw distance and the PS3/Cafe version has a lot of extra content...

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I dare to say the chances are pretty slim, most likely Café will use a special interface again, how are they gonna port this?



updated: 14.01.2012

playing right now: Xenoblade Chronicles

Hype-o-meter, from least to most hyped:  the Last Story, Twisted Metal, Mass Effect 3, Final Fantasy XIII-2, Final Fantasy Versus XIII, Playstation ViTA

bet with Mordred11 that Rage will look better on Xbox 360.

Silver-Tiger said:
zarx said:
Silver-Tiger said:

So to get this straight:

Project Café will undoubtely stronger than both the PS3 and the X360, and we already know NGP will not even have PS3 level of power (what ridiculous rumors these were...), and will most likely have a new controlling scheme, and still you expect cross-platform games between NGP and Café?


Yeas because the PSP being may time weaker than the PS2 and Wii stopped all those sports games being ports of each other and games like Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories and Silent Hill: Shattered memories eh? I am not saying they will look the same or run the same but games can still be ported even if the NGP version is down resed doesn't use AA and has smaller draw distance and the PS3/Cafe version has a lot of extra content...

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I dare to say the chances are pretty slim, most likely Café will use a special interface again, how are they gonna port this?


Depends on the interface and how integral it is to 3RD party games, currently rumours suggest that the system will feature standard controllers with an added touch screen, now the NGP has all that covered, the NGP even has accelerometers and gyros. Of course we are bassing all this on rumours and speculation which could be wrong and the Cafe could have something wild like brain interface or something but I doubt that that would eb the only control option in any case. could be that no retail Cafe games are also on NGP but that some games are download only on the Cafe and also on the NGP in some way, or the very real possibility that there will be none for what ever reason.



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

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zarx said:
HappySqurriel said:
zarx said:

yup just look at the performance of those R700 GPUs truly they blow the PS360 out of the water with their awsome...

being a R700 tells us very little as the series ranges from far less than the 360s GPU to over 8x in some metrics 


The bottom end R700 is (roughly) equal to the HD console's GPUs ... But why would you expect Nintendo to use an unmodified version of the worst R700 processor?

Being that these GPUs were originally manufacturered using a 55nm process and the chip in Nintendo's next console will likely use a 28nm (or smaller) process, what benefit is there for Nintendo to choose the low end version? The RV790XT/RV770XT (HD4890/HD4870) would already be inexpensive and energy efficient enough to produce a small affordable console, why would Nintendo choose the RV710 (HD4550/ HD4350)?

 

Actually the bottom end is half as powerful on paper the 360's GPU was a beast at the time ahead of even high end GPUs at the time. 

they won't use any specific card they will use a custom chip bassed on the R700 architecture and there is no knowing how powerful it will be exept for the rumours I have already pointed out. 

Marginally higher resolution and similar framerate using similar assets is "half the performance"?

Beyond that, the low end GPUs are not meant to play games ... They're mostly designed to be used in business class desktops and ultra low end PCs. Which is another reason why Nintendo would never choose one of these processors as the base of their next generation system.



HappySqurriel said:
zarx said:
HappySqurriel said:
zarx said:

yup just look at the performance of those R700 GPUs truly they blow the PS360 out of the water with their awsome...

being a R700 tells us very little as the series ranges from far less than the 360s GPU to over 8x in some metrics 


The bottom end R700 is (roughly) equal to the HD console's GPUs ... But why would you expect Nintendo to use an unmodified version of the worst R700 processor?

Being that these GPUs were originally manufacturered using a 55nm process and the chip in Nintendo's next console will likely use a 28nm (or smaller) process, what benefit is there for Nintendo to choose the low end version? The RV790XT/RV770XT (HD4890/HD4870) would already be inexpensive and energy efficient enough to produce a small affordable console, why would Nintendo choose the RV710 (HD4550/ HD4350)?

 

Actually the bottom end is half as powerful on paper the 360's GPU was a beast at the time ahead of even high end GPUs at the time. 

they won't use any specific card they will use a custom chip bassed on the R700 architecture and there is no knowing how powerful it will be exept for the rumours I have already pointed out. 

Marginally higher resolution and similar framerate using similar assets is "half the performance"?

Beyond that, the low end GPUs are not meant to play games ... They're mostly designed to be used in business class desktops and ultra low end PCs. Which is another reason why Nintendo would never choose one of these processors as the base of their next generation system.


Cod 4 is a 60fps game on consoles dude 



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

zarx said:


Cod 4 is a 60fps game on consoles dude 

Also the HD 4850 only has 4* the shading power of the Xbox 360 on paper. Xenos is about equivalent to a ~200 Stream processor GPU.



Tease.

Squilliam said:
zarx said:


Cod 4 is a 60fps game on consoles dude 

Also the HD 4850 only has 4* the shading power of the Xbox 360 on paper. Xenos is about equivalent to a ~200 Stream processor GPU.


actually on paper the Xenos 4GP/s pixel fill rate and 8GT/s Texture vs the 4850s 10GP/s pixel and 25GT/s texture which puts it around 3* the shading power on paper, of course that is only a small piece of the picture as the 4850 is capable of DX10.1 shaders so can do certain effects much faster.



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

Oh my god. Why are people so quick to assume that Nintendo cannot build a super console? We are talking about the Grandfather of gaming here. Nintendo can build a console that rivels MS or Sony at any given time. It just comes down to price and what people can afford. Laugh all you want, but in 23 days we will all be blown away by Cafe. This is all part of Nintendos plan, build a massive user base and then bring them over next Generation, Nintendo doesnt need profit this Gen, they profited since day 1 with the Wii. Cafe will be the first console to offer true 1080p, steroscopic, games with massive 3rd party support.  This will NOT be a Wii. This will be a console for the "Hard Core" gamers. It WILL rivel what MS and Sony have to offer. So diss Nintendo and put them down all you want, people like me who are saving their money now will be playing an amazing console with amazing games. While you wait for a console that will not offer much more.



                                  Gaming Away Life Since 1985