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Forums - General - Race/Class/Gender/etc. Do they still matter?

 

First off this is not to bash any race/sex/orientation /social class what so ever. Please post in an educational manner. No flaming and all that Jazz. I want to see some respectful conversations on said subject. I will start off the discussion by asking some hopefully thought provoking questions listing my own response.

Do you think race still matters in today’s world? – Yes, I very much think that a person’s race still impacts many aspects of their life. For instance while being pulled over by a police officer. People of non white skin tend to be jailed more often for drug related crimes. In many of these communities White people and the statics on drug related activity is actually much higher among those of Caucasian yet they are jailed the least even when they massively outnumber other races.  Look up some number on prisons and jails.

Another reason I think race still matters is a simple question. If you are working at small store and you can see it all with cameras and mirrors and there is a small group of Caucasian’s and another one is Latino’s who are you most likely going to watch more closely? Don’t actually answer that just look at which first popped in your mind.

Do you think Sex as in Male/Female still matter? - Yes, again. The job market pay is actually one way to see that. The gap has been slowly changing, but it is still there. Pay close attention to different types of media. Whether that be books (including kids books) cartoons/sitcoms local paper and so on. It is plain as day. There are of course many instances of this working vice versa.

An example would be. Who would pick to be your babysitter a male or a female? Who would you pick to work on and supervise the building of a house? IF both male and female have equal qualifcations.

This is just to start things off feel free to add your own questions in which for others to respond too. Again, Please keep things respectful. I want conversation’s to take place and for us all to see different points of view. I want this to be a bit eye opening and insightful for anyone who wishes to partake in this.



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unfortunately yes it does and unfortunately I don't see it not mattering any time in the future...



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Race/class/gender, the holy trinity of multiculturalism (LOL). Yes, these aspects still matter, but the problem is that your question is vague. Do they mater from what point of view? They're certainly important regarding a person's identity, though there are toehr aspects taht are important also (like religion, sexual orientation etc.).And they can lead to discrimination.

Also, you shoouldn't confuse "sex" (a biological trait) with "gender" (culturally determined). These 2 are not the same thing by any stretch.



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Race sterotyping will take a very long time to dispell, IMO. If it could be dispelled at all.



No, not really.

It matters only when people want to take it as a problem.

For example, your statement about men/women making different money is totally wrong. It's been proven for awhile that men and women, provided they do the same work, will get paid the same.

As for your claim about race and drugs, the bureau of Justice disagrees. As per their statistics, many more blacks are jailed for drug dealing because there are simply more black drug dealers than whites in comparison to users. http://www.jrsa.org/ibrrc/using-data/data_quality/data_elements/drug/drug_examples.shtml

As per their data, 69% of all incarcerated for drug offenses are by whites. But for dealers, its a 50/50 split between blacks and whites.

In the end, the reason (I think) they are still issues are because people still push them as problems, and complain about them. When we stop seeing people as male/female/black/white/straight/gay, we can judge people based on quality and character, which is a far more useful metric for defining worth.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

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mrstickball said:

No, not really.

It matters only when people want to take it as a problem.

For example, your statement about men/women making different money is totally wrong. It's been proven for awhile that men and women, provided they do the same work, will get paid the same.

As for your claim about race and drugs, the bureau of Justice disagrees. As per their statistics, many more blacks are jailed for drug dealing because there are simply more black drug dealers than whites in comparison to users. http://www.jrsa.org/ibrrc/using-data/data_quality/data_elements/drug/drug_examples.shtml

As per their data, 69% of all incarcerated for drug offenses are by whites. But for dealers, its a 50/50 split between blacks and whites.

In the end, the reason (I think) they are still issues are because people still push them as problems, and complain about them. When we stop seeing people as male/female/black/white/straight/gay, we can judge people based on quality and character, which is a far more useful metric for defining worth.


Unfortunetly race does indeed still matter for the States as a whole. Now, thats not to say ever single person is racist as that is far from the truth but lets have a small look at the income levels of different races.

 

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s0689.pdf

 

look at the difference in thoose that make less than 15k now look over at the median income between black and whites. That is a huge difference it shows race is still a problem on at least this level. Why are there such big differences among the different races in pay?



The problem when it comes to Race/Reglion/cultural differences is that as Humans we band together in Societies built on trust (and fear), but trust on each other, and as so they like it that if everyone has the same beliefs and culture so they know who they are when really they dont. Colour of skin doesn't matter its the culture that comes with that skin difference that people dont get. We dont decrimate purely on skin color, we associate there culture with an phyiscal feature to indentiy the people with the same culture and those not, and Skin color is one. Clothes is another major factor in judging people. 

What happened over the past 100 years with European expanion and the introduction of global travel, migration and tourism, people are living all over the place like never before when boarders, oceans or natural land barriers sepearated each other. Because of that we have people from other cultures mixing with others. While they can get along very well like in Europe people dont care living in each country because they have very simular cultures but let say an rural African person moving in. The person is different and unknown to the local people, therefore they associated as "Threats" to there way of life to otherwised proved not. Now this isn't for everyone, some dont care others do. Some cultures mix really well and adapt to others for example here in Australia and heavily European settled region, allowed Asian people to live here from the 1970s on wards and many have taken on the Australian-european culture and adapted very well and the responds have been overall accepting. Other cases can be not so well. 

I can tell you now, heavy hate towards one culture of people who have migrated to one nation is when those people either 1. dont adapt to the native populations culture, or 2. inforce change which can cause disconent between the two cultures.Now the Europeans tried this globally and they got there hand handed to them for doing so, and they aren't doing it anymore, but now the reversal is trying to happen and there are two sides, 1. side saying hold on we dont want this, and other who dont care and the people trying to enforce change calling the "racism" or "prejudice" call with the other half backing them, whcih is something that isn't going down so well. 

Really there will be always hate in the current society and it wont stop until 1. all members of that society mix into one equal culture of simular beleifs and way of life (something people are trying to do called political correctness), 2. The pubic preception of the other cultures negatives go away for example the current trend that "all muslims are terrorists" isn't going to help the Muslims who aren't get in on some societies. So when we mix so much that we are all an mix between yellow and brown skin an speak english and all paise nothing or one thing is when there will no racial hate. 



Of Course That's Just My Opinion, I Could Be Wrong

Games4Fun said:
mrstickball said:

No, not really.

It matters only when people want to take it as a problem.

For example, your statement about men/women making different money is totally wrong. It's been proven for awhile that men and women, provided they do the same work, will get paid the same.

As for your claim about race and drugs, the bureau of Justice disagrees. As per their statistics, many more blacks are jailed for drug dealing because there are simply more black drug dealers than whites in comparison to users. http://www.jrsa.org/ibrrc/using-data/data_quality/data_elements/drug/drug_examples.shtml

As per their data, 69% of all incarcerated for drug offenses are by whites. But for dealers, its a 50/50 split between blacks and whites.

In the end, the reason (I think) they are still issues are because people still push them as problems, and complain about them. When we stop seeing people as male/female/black/white/straight/gay, we can judge people based on quality and character, which is a far more useful metric for defining worth.


Unfortunetly race does indeed still matter for the States as a whole. Now, thats not to say ever single person is racist as that is far from the truth but lets have a small look at the income levels of different races.

 

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s0689.pdf

 

look at the difference in thoose that make less than 15k now look over at the median income between black and whites. That is a huge difference it shows race is still a problem on at least this level. This from the goverment.

So? Is that an big problem. See Racism in Amercia is caused by i mentioned above but is compound greatly by the News. 

yep the News is the number 1 cause of racism in the US and in many countries when news is consumed by mass. If the News Never brang up racism and leaning about racism in Schools etc was never done racism would be so much lower, and the hate form "black people" and segergation would of died out over time. 

Also i like to point out about above, there are Poor White people and Poor Black people and there are Poor yellow skined people. There is no clear sepeartion that all these people are getting more than these people. 

also about the imprisionment, if you replace skin with hair colour you might find out that Brown hair or black hair people are more likely to end up in prision. the reason is there are more black hair or brown hair people commiting crimes than Blonde or red hair people.



Of Course That's Just My Opinion, I Could Be Wrong

mchaza said:
Games4Fun said:
mrstickball said:

No, not really.

It matters only when people want to take it as a problem.

For example, your statement about men/women making different money is totally wrong. It's been proven for awhile that men and women, provided they do the same work, will get paid the same.

As for your claim about race and drugs, the bureau of Justice disagrees. As per their statistics, many more blacks are jailed for drug dealing because there are simply more black drug dealers than whites in comparison to users. http://www.jrsa.org/ibrrc/using-data/data_quality/data_elements/drug/drug_examples.shtml

As per their data, 69% of all incarcerated for drug offenses are by whites. But for dealers, its a 50/50 split between blacks and whites.

In the end, the reason (I think) they are still issues are because people still push them as problems, and complain about them. When we stop seeing people as male/female/black/white/straight/gay, we can judge people based on quality and character, which is a far more useful metric for defining worth.


Unfortunetly race does indeed still matter for the States as a whole. Now, thats not to say ever single person is racist as that is far from the truth but lets have a small look at the income levels of different races.

 

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s0689.pdf

 

look at the difference in thoose that make less than 15k now look over at the median income between black and whites. That is a huge difference it shows race is still a problem on at least this level. This from the goverment.

So? Is that an big problem. See Racism in Amercia is caused by i mentioned above but is compound greatly by the News. 

yep the News is the number 1 cause of racism in the US and in many countries when news is consumed by mass. If the News Never brang up racism and leaning about racism in Schools etc was never done racism would be so much lower, and the hate form "black people" and segergation would of died out over time. 

Also i like to point out about above, there are Poor White people and Poor Black people and there are Poor yellow skined people. There is no clear sepeartion that all these people are getting more than these people. 

also about the imprisionment, if you replace skin with hair colour you might find out that Brown hair or black hair people are more likely to end up in prision. the reason is there are more black hair or brown hair people commiting crimes than Blonde or red hair people.

There is a huge difference among the $. No its not a complete serpartion, but it is a huge difference and since we are all equal that should not be the case. It should be much closer.Of course you could look at the difference in gradutation and on going schooling for better jobs as part of the issue, but then again why is there such a difference if their is no problem?

Well, I agree on the media being a huge part of the racism we see. They are who kept bringing up race during the last election.  We are conditioned (unknowing a ton when we are young) at the images we see the books we read and so on. But, you have to wonder why this is happening, or rather still.

I can give a a personal example of my conditioning while I was young. In I believe it was K-Mart during X-mas season I refused to sit on the Santa's lap. Not a big deal right? Well, no not when I state it that way. However, the reason I wouldnt was because he was black. I was around 7 at this time. I kicked screamed cried right in front of this man for the simple reason he was black. My parents attempt to force me too, but after a short bit the man just got up and left.

The above example still happens with kids today in many forms and it is one of my worst memories.

There was some MSNBC/FOX/CNN or some networks doing a doll test with childern of different ages and race. I cant recall the overall end results, but I do recall atleast one black kid pointing to the white colored picture as pretty/smart and such and the black one as mean/dumb etc. She was not proud to be black and it seemed as if she wished she was white. Thats horrible!

The media also does this with age and gender.

On this im not talking straight numbers but statisitically.

I for the life of me can think of the actual term at the moment, but there is a such thing as healthy paranoia. What I mean by this is races have a healthy paranoia because of the past and things they have seen happen to their own race.Nothing wrong with that as it is a learned survival skill. However it builds tension and can get out of control.



mchaza said:

The problem when it comes to Race/Reglion/cultural differences is that as Humans we band together in Societies built on trust (and fear), but trust on each other, and as so they like it that if everyone has the same beliefs and culture so they know who they are when really they dont. Colour of skin doesn't matter its the culture that comes with that skin difference that people dont get. We dont decrimate purely on skin color, we associate there culture with an phyiscal feature to indentiy the people with the same culture and those not, and Skin color is one. Clothes is another major factor in judging people. 

What happened over the past 100 years with European expanion and the introduction of global travel, migration and tourism, people are living all over the place like never before when boarders, oceans or natural land barriers sepearated each other. Because of that we have people from other cultures mixing with others. While they can get along very well like in Europe people dont care living in each country because they have very simular cultures but let say an rural African person moving in. The person is different and unknown to the local people, therefore they associated as "Threats" to there way of life to otherwised proved not. Now this isn't for everyone, some dont care others do. Some cultures mix really well and adapt to others for example here in Australia and heavily European settled region, allowed Asian people to live here from the 1970s on wards and many have taken on the Australian-european culture and adapted very well and the responds have been overall accepting. Other cases can be not so well. 

I can tell you now, heavy hate towards one culture of people who have migrated to one nation is when those people either 1. dont adapt to the native populations culture, or 2. inforce change which can cause disconent between the two cultures.Now the Europeans tried this globally and they got there hand handed to them for doing so, and they aren't doing it anymore, but now the reversal is trying to happen and there are two sides, 1. side saying hold on we dont want this, and other who dont care and the people trying to enforce change calling the "racism" or "prejudice" call with the other half backing them, whcih is something that isn't going down so well. 

Really there will be always hate in the current society and it wont stop until 1. all members of that society mix into one equal culture of simular beleifs and way of life (something people are trying to do called political correctness), 2. The pubic preception of the other cultures negatives go away for example the current trend that "all muslims are terrorists" isn't going to help the Muslims who aren't get in on some societies. So when we mix so much that we are all an mix between yellow and brown skin an speak english and all paise nothing or one thing is when there will no racial hate. 

This is actually very interesting.

I really need to go back on my sociology notes and books. This is actually what made me bring this up along with my Understanding diversity class from last semester. I do recall their being a social pyramid about how our society is currently set up.

I enjoyed reading what you had to say, but perhaps I am too rusty to have the conversation I was wanting out of this. I do know a good book on exactly this type of stuff though. its called Race Class &Gender. It has all kinds of information and is probably where I will start reresearching on this subject again. It is very eye opening and has first hand accounts of different major events and smaller personal ones.