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Forums - Sony - Sony and Geohot reach a settlement

thranx said:
Grimes said:

I don't think for a second that Sony's only objective was to stop one guy from hacking.

They wanted to prevent set precedent where if you hack, you will be punished. The problem with this settlement is that nobody got punished, unless you consider not using Sony products a punishment. I guess that's pushishment or a blessing depending on how you look at it.

But this case will do nothing to stop people from hacking in the future, so IMO the case is a loss for Sony.


s far as i can tell he is still free to use sony products. I dont know where people are getting the he is banned from them. He is boycotting them on choice  I believe. He barred from hacking them and posting on the net/distributing hacks.

Sony did not win

Geohot did not win

Consumers did not win

Nothing has changed really. Until the next case comes up it may or may not be legal to hack your own console.

Well he did agree to not hack other Sony products.  Or not hack sony products without there permission anyway.  Who knows, maybe he got permission.  Rest of the terms are private.

Hence why he's joining the boycott i'd imagine.  Why buy something you can't fully utliize.

Though yeah, nothing would stop him from buying a sony product.



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Oh, and here is one where it shows the conflict of interest.

http://exophase.com/22299/sony-believes-otheros-plaintiffs-involved-in-hacking-conspiracy-wants-to-inspect-hard-drives/

 

Baffling is why Sony is interested in "Air Force"... and Immigration?



thranx said:

donation money:)


Didn't he donated all that left overs to charity?



padib said:
Galaki said:
thranx said:

Sony did not win

Geohot did not win

Consumers did not win

Nothing has changed really. Until the next case comes up it may or may not be legal to hack your own console.


Plus, the laywers pocketed the money.

 

Looking at it from an advantageous position point of view:

1) Sony won because it got away with bullying the little guy. That boosts its confidence for future disputes. It also lost in a sense because it probably wanted to win a court case and obtain a favorable precedent. By lacking progress at the expense of assets and their reputation, they spent to get nowhere (they caught 1 fish in a sea of hackers).

2) Hotz lost the battle because he folded to corporate pressure despite his claims to us. However, I believe he's counting this loss as part of his plans to win a greater war, as we read in the article ssj12 posted. Also, he made a name for himself (some good, some bad).

3) Consumers lost in that Sony humiliated Hotz by making him fold under their pressure. They also won because more anger is arising that will grow into a winning war against corporate control over their due property.

4) The lawyers definitely won big time.

5) We as posters totally win cause we get to debate over an interesting topic :) 

 

With out this going to trial nothing has changed though. Sony did not get away with bulltying the little guy. In fact it was the opposite. They showed how weak their hand was. They showed they knew they would not win, why else would they settle. It makes no sense for them to settle unless they thought they would of lost and set a precednt that would of hurt them. If anything this encourages the next hacker to push it farther (assuming they can raise the funds). I stand at my point, nothing has changed for anyone. We will see a similar case to this with another device. Apple tried they lost. Sony tried they settled. who is next? MS, nintendo, nokia? Could be anybody. And Geohot did not win either.



Galaki said:
thranx said:

donation money:)


Didn't he donated all that left overs to charity?

I was being sarcastic sorry. All of the sony supporters seem to think he is just having a party with the donation money. I thought you were being sarcastic too. Maybe my meter is broken :)

Edit: after rereading i guess you probably meant the lawyers of each side made out with big pay checks. I agree they did!



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padib said:
Spankey said:
padib said:
LivingMetal said:
 

Okay smart-alec, define owned in "he never lawfully owned the software on the PS3". On the flip-side, did he own the PS3 hardware? Do you own yours? What elevates software above hardware such that you own one and not the other?

A little challenge for you ;)

Corporeal property vs. non-corporeal property.

Physical vs. Intellectual

etc.

Physical vs. Intellectual, you've got to be kidding me. So are you saying there's no intellect in the Physical components of the PS3?

Okay, let's go with Corporeal vs. non-corporeal. What in that makes it more or less ownable? What do you make of copyrights? Corporeal, no, but ownable just as much.


Put it this way:

You can cheerfully put a bullet through your PS3. (as long as it's done in a proper, safe environmet preferably one designated as a shooting range or similar)

However, you're not allowed to shoot someone elses PS3 unless you're entitled to do so.

The software on the PS3 does not belong to the buyer of the PS3 system (it only contains a licenced copy of the software for limited use).

As the software does not belong to the buyer, are they not entitled to "put a bullet" through it as GeoHot did?

That is, I think what the courts were going on about, and from what I've seen of the settlement, it turns out that (in that jurisdiction where the court was held at least) the buyer is not entitled to do what GeoHot did to the software. (that would probably have been the finding so Hotz folded)

but yeah, I agree that the lawyers actually scored more than anyone else from this



Proud Sony Rear Admiral

Kasz216 said:
padib said:

 

@kasz  hey, do you have a link to the OtherOS case?


A few articles on it, that's it

http://groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110218181557455

http://groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110311112544990

http://groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110310172538157

 

Also one on the settlment

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110411173644425

From the first article:

"For example, when discussing the motion to strike, Sony spoke first, and here's the interchange with the judge:

MS. SACKS: Nothing that is alleged anywhere in the complaint says anything about the duration, the longevity of the time in which the other OS function or, for that matter, any particular aggregate of features of the PS3 would be available.

THE COURT: Why then are we making the assumption that it must terminate at a certain point?

They're saying it's an ongoing representation; that without any termination date that you will always have the OS function. You're saying, well, they are not saying one way or the other what the time period is.

Why do we assume that it terminates?

MS. SACKS: Well, Your Honor, a manufacturer's obligation for anything having to do with a product itself is only defined by its express warranty, its express promises.

If SCEA, Sony, had said, "We guarantee that the other OS function would be supported," if they said, "We guarantee PlayStation Network access will always be available," anything about the duration, plaintiffs might have an argument. The only thing that Sony told anyone about the duration of any feature of the PS3 is what it said in the one year express limited hardware warranty. It said "one year."

And as the Daughtery case, as the Bardin case, and as subsequent federal court authorities have noted, where something arises after the duration of that promised one year, the purchaser can have no expectation.

So, Your Honor, if the purchaser can have no expectation of the PlayStation 3 functioning at all after the expiration of that one-year warranty, how can it somehow have a greater expectation about the availability of one feature? If SCEA cannot have liability under California law for the PS3 completely failing to perform after one year, how can it have liability for the fact that it does 99 percent of what it was advertised to do, and just not one?"

 

Did I read this wrong or are they saying that after 1 year you can no longer expect any feature to be available? So after 1 year I actually have no right to expect my PS3 to play games? The hell?

What am I missing???



forest-spirit said:
Kasz216 said:
padib said:

 

@kasz  hey, do you have a link to the OtherOS case?


A few articles on it, that's it

http://groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110218181557455

http://groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110311112544990

http://groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110310172538157

 

Also one on the settlment

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110411173644425

 

Did I read this wrong or are they saying that after 1 year you can no longer expect any feature to be available? So after 1 year I actually have no right to expect my PS3 to play games? The hell?

What am I missing???

I believe you read that correctly. Makes you wonder why so many people want Sony to own the products in their homes after they purchase them.



forest-spirit said:
Kasz216 said:
padib said:

 

@kasz  hey, do you have a link to the OtherOS case?


A few articles on it, that's it

http://groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110218181557455

http://groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110311112544990

http://groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110310172538157

 

Also one on the settlment

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110411173644425

From the first article:

"For example, when discussing the motion to strike, Sony spoke first, and here's the interchange with the judge:

MS. SACKS: Nothing that is alleged anywhere in the complaint says anything about the duration, the longevity of the time in which the other OS function or, for that matter, any particular aggregate of features of the PS3 would be available.

THE COURT: Why then are we making the assumption that it must terminate at a certain point?

They're saying it's an ongoing representation; that without any termination date that you will always have the OS function. You're saying, well, they are not saying one way or the other what the time period is.

Why do we assume that it terminates?

MS. SACKS: Well, Your Honor, a manufacturer's obligation for anything having to do with a product itself is only defined by its express warranty, its express promises.

If SCEA, Sony, had said, "We guarantee that the other OS function would be supported," if they said, "We guarantee PlayStation Network access will always be available," anything about the duration, plaintiffs might have an argument. The only thing that Sony told anyone about the duration of any feature of the PS3 is what it said in the one year express limited hardware warranty. It said "one year."

And as the Daughtery case, as the Bardin case, and as subsequent federal court authorities have noted, where something arises after the duration of that promised one year, the purchaser can have no expectation.

So, Your Honor, if the purchaser can have no expectation of the PlayStation 3 functioning at all after the expiration of that one-year warranty, how can it somehow have a greater expectation about the availability of one feature? If SCEA cannot have liability under California law for the PS3 completely failing to perform after one year, how can it have liability for the fact that it does 99 percent of what it was advertised to do, and just not one?"

 

Did I read this wrong or are they saying that after 1 year you can no longer expect any feature to be available? So after 1 year I actually have no right to expect my PS3 to play games? The hell?

What am I missing???


nope, your entirely right. Sadly people are blind and will think its a good thing PS3 owners get features removed.

Trophies, in-game menus, home, and the friends list can be removed now I guess. They are all over a year old now, so by Sony's logic they can expire and no one will care. I want them to test this theory.



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After 1 year, it's just Sony being nice that your PS3 may continue to work. You should be nice to them in return :)