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Forums - Gaming - Against The Grain: The Wii's return to grace

NYANKS on 03 April 2011
RolStoppable said:
NYANKS said:

I don't see why people are saying this is making the PS3 and 360 look bad.  Regardless of how bad the Wii lineup is (and it is), the Wii is the market leader.  It is very hard to overturn that stigma in the market, I think the Christmas rush every year is pretty good evidence of it as the cheap and or most wished for product as a gift.  WE might think of its support as mediocre, but the consumers still see games that are AMAZING, like Wii series, Mario and Just Dance, among many other games.  We've never seen a leader falter before, so people thinking they understand the dynamic completely seem to have quite an ego. 

The Wii's release schedule now is about as bad as the Gamecube's was at the same point in its fifth year. I don't think anyone would dispute this. At that time (March 2006) the PS2 enjoyed full support, just like the PS3 and 360 do now. So for the sake of this argument the PS3 and 360 count as one and the same console. This means that the Wii is getting outsold 2:1 each week on a regular basis.

Now it's a good time to look back at the ratio the PS2 used to outsell the GC each and every week under these circumstances. It's around 10:1 with a tendency to be higher than that. Sure, the Wii has a much better backlog of games to offer than the Gamecube, but that's pretty much all it has going for it. On the other hand, the HD consoles are getting new games constantly in addition to their existing libraries which aren't all that bad (at least that seems to be the general consensus). Despite this, they only manage to beat the Wii by a ratio of 2:1.

If we are looking at this as a three horse race, then the poor horse with two broken legs still runs as fast as its two topfit competitors. And that's looking bad for the healthy horses, not the sick one.

Yes, but the Wii made its bones already.  It has attained its spot as the "it" console among many.  AS we've all seen, during the "good times" it can ride Mario for a year with no problem.  I think you are underestimating the impact the Wii has made.  It's okay backlog of games is all it needs.  The Wii series alone and Mario are all the damn thing needs.  I'm still of the mind that it is the first console to make a name for itself with hardware rather than software.  It's differentiated itself already.  The stigma as the market leader to such a meteorically rising console shouldn't be underestimated, even if it's lineup is relative crap at this moment in time. 



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psrock on 03 April 2011

Nintendo is fine

It's 3rd parties fault

The PS3 only selling more so far this is because they are in more markets( Funny as hell)

This is not new, better games are coming in E3 

It's because THIS HUGE COMPANY is focusing on the 3DS



 Next Gen 

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TheBardsSong on 03 April 2011

I'd say it's doing pretty well considering the last game for the system that interested me was Donkey Kong Country Returns. Guarantee it will still end on top this year after Zelda and whatever E3 titles they have hit.



NYANKS on 03 April 2011
RolStoppable said:
NYANKS said:

Yes, but the Wii made its bones already.  It has attained its spot as the "it" console among many.  AS we've all seen, during the "good times" it can ride Mario for a year with no problem.  I think you are underestimating the impact the Wii has made.  It's okay backlog of games is all it needs.  The Wii series alone and Mario are all the damn thing needs.  I'm still of the mind that it is the first console to make a name for itself with hardware rather than software.  It's differentiated itself already.  The stigma as the market leader to such a meteorically rising console shouldn't be underestimated, even if it's lineup is relative crap at this moment in time. 

You are contradicting yourself. First you say that the Wii rides on Wii ___ and Mario games, but then you go on to say that hardware is what made the Wii popular. Hardware without software is absolutely useless. People buy consoles because they want to play the games. People saw Wii Sports and said they want it. Had they only seen the hardware, they wouldn't have given a damn about the Wii.

And it's still looking bad for the HD consoles no matter how you slice it, especially for the 360. Both systems are getting all the games. The PS3 basically is a better Wii in a technological sense. The 360 had its own buzz a few months ago with Kinect. Apparently it's the fastest selling electronics device ever. And all it did was putting the 360 in third place a short while later? That can't be considered good, especially because Sony and Nintendo did virtually nothing during that timeframe to boost their own sales.

I keep coming back to the Wii and it's initial impact.  The benefit of being the leader is that you have less to prove.  Kinect and Move were just following a trend made by the Wii, and the latter was always going to be the biggest impact.  The PS3 became a better Wii months ago, the gen started years ago. A little late to the party to run significant interference.  Kinect was the fastest thing ever because if you inundate people with enough marketing and show a decent product and copy a past significant achievment, you can sell a damn lot.  I always pegged these for being temporary attempts to get some of the Wii pie, anyone who thought it would make Wii third permanently is a lunatic.  Should it be in third?  That's opinon entirely  :P



Metallicube on 03 April 2011
psrock said:

Nintendo is fine

It's 3rd parties fault

The PS3 only selling more so far this is because they are in more markets( Funny as hell)

This is not new, better games are coming in E3 

It's because THIS HUGE COMPANY is focusing on the 3DS

Yup, you basically nailed it ;)



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NYANKS on 03 April 2011
RolStoppable said:
NYANKS said:

I keep coming back to the Wii and it's initial impact.  The benefit of being the leader is that you have less to prove.  Kinect and Move were just following a trend made by the Wii, and the latter was always going to be the biggest impact.  The PS3 became a better Wii months ago, the gen started years ago. A little late to the party to run significant interference.  Kinect was the fastest thing ever because if you inundate people with enough marketing and show a decent product and copy a past significant achievment, you can sell a damn lot.  I always pegged these for being temporary attempts to get some of the Wii pie, anyone who thought it would make Wii third permanently is a lunatic.  Should it be in third?  That's opinon entirely  :P

I have to disagree on the notion that the leader has less to prove. Whether it's video games, sports or other things, the leader is the one who has the most to prove. If you are on top, then all eyes are on you. I don't think that you would disagree that Sony had to prove the most with the PS3 coming off the massive success of the PS2 while Nintendo and Microsoft hadn't to prove as much with their 7th gen consoles, because they were only also-rans in the previous generation.

Once the Wii was on top, Nintendo had to prove time and time again that it wasn't just a fluke. Then they failed and sales started to collapse. They went from being sold out for years to barely beating the HD consoles individually within a matter of months.

Now what was I going to say again? Ah yes, it still looks bad for the HD consoles that they have trouble to outrun a wounded horse. If five years ago anyone was going to tell you that Nintendo would be in the same position as the Gamecube in terms of support, but still be competitive in weekly sales with Sony and Microsoft, you would have laughed your ass off.

This is my problem.  How fast do you expect a formerly incredibly dominant console to fall?  From completely dominant to middle of the pack is pretty bad to me in a matter of months.  Given time the Wii will fall further, unless it rectifies something.  Even during its "good" years I kind of found its library lacking, apparently for consumers it is enough. 



ultraslick on 03 April 2011

I feel as if I should comment here even though I think this thread is going along fine without me. I feel as if I should comment because I created the original "The wii's fall from grace" thread.

All I said was that the wii has fallen from grace.

The definition of grace in this instance is the position which the wii was in at the start of this gen up until about 18 months ago, (approx, cant be sure on the exact moment). It was absolutely crushing the competition and now it is different for alot of reasons listed in the original thread.

Thus the "fall from grace"

I never said it was doomed, others put words in my mouth. I didnt overreact, I was just sharing the summary of how events have unfolded. In my time following video games I have never seen a market leader lead so dominantly, and subsequently change its position in sales so substantially in one generation.

This generation is very unique and it will have repurcusions for years to come, the aftershocks of which will affect each of the big three as we go into the next generation.

The wii has been and can still be considered a resounding success,

but it has fallen from its once glorious grace.

These are of course my opinions based on what I consider to be facts.



̶3̶R̶D̶   2ND! Place has never been so sweet.


NYANKS on 03 April 2011
RolStoppable said:
NYANKS said:
RolStoppable said:

They went from being sold out for years to barely beating the HD consoles individually within a matter of months.

This is my problem.  How fast do you expect a formerly incredibly dominant console to fall?  From completely dominant to middle of the pack is pretty bad to me in a matter of months.  Given time the Wii will fall further, unless it rectifies something.  Even during its "good" years I kind of found its library lacking, apparently for consumers it is enough. 

Yes, that absolutely is bad and that's why it's looking so bad for the HD consoles. The Wii is pretty much done for and they still can't really beat it.

Of course, if you look at this from the other end of the spectrum, that the HD consoles used to be miles behind the Wii and now are selling on par, then you may consider their current sales good. But given the circumstances that virtually everything that could go wrong went wrong for the Wii and that virtually everything that could go right went right for the HD consoles in the last two years, it really can't be considered much of an achievement for Sony and Microsoft.

Oh, not at all.  I don't consider this any great achievment for them at all.  I prefer to focus on the Wii, it seems to be all about that console.  The fact that things have gone so badly is the headline here to me.  To me the other two have stayed relevant mostly, while the Wii has disintegrated relatively speaking.  I just feel like the two HD consoles were just going about their business of trying to draw in consumer with games and such, and the Wii just imploded.  Seems isolated, which is why I don't get all the comparisons.  The Wii only looks healthy because it was so high to begin with.  The collapse may get worse, who knows.  Like I said before, we've never really seen this.  I'm truly curious.



ultraslick on 03 April 2011

Also, just wanted to add that I think everyone agrees and is aware of the same thing. We are just forming different stances on the same issue.

Has the wii dipped a bit... Yea

but what does that mean? That is where the argument begins, and it is a good one that I doubt has a clear answer.

Heres something for you Nintendo fans;

As can be pointed out, the wii is beating the 360 currently after Kinect and redesign.. this is amazing.

and is only loosing to the PS3 because of the glut of recent and upcoming PS3 exclusives, it is suprising the ps3 isnt further ahead in this regard. Also amazing.

But even if the wii manages to pass them in weekly sales (for the sake of argument), it has still fallen from grace, (meaning its level of past sales dominance).

But that doesnt mean it isnt still graceful and great.

 

Lets say that the wii is a horse in a race, It started out killing the opposition, has hit a few hurdles here and there, has had portions near the end of the race where the other horses section times were faster, but it will still win the derby here people.

It will still win the derby. But is the derby more important than who is currently winning?

I dont know, just thoughts.



̶3̶R̶D̶   2ND! Place has never been so sweet.


NYANKS on 03 April 2011
ultraslick said:

Also, just wanted to add that I think everyone agrees and is aware of the same thing. We are just forming different stances on the same issue.

Has the wii dipped a bit... Yea

but what does that mean? That is where the argument begins, and it is a good one that I doubt has a clear answer.

Heres something for you Nintendo fans;

As can be pointed out, the wii is beating the 360 currently after Kinect and redesign.. this is amazing.

and is only loosing to the PS3 because of the glut of recent and upcoming PS3 exclusives, it is suprising the ps3 isnt further ahead in this regard. Also amazing.

But even if the wii manages to pass them in weekly sales (for the sake of argument), it has still fallen from grace, (meaning its level of past sales dominance).

But that doesnt mean it isnt still graceful and great.

 

Lets say that the wii is a horse in a race, It started out killing the opposition, has hit a few hurdles here and there, has had portions near the end of the race where the other horses section times were faster, but it will still win the derby here people.

It will still win the derby. But is the derby more important than who is currently winning?

I dont know, just thoughts.

But see, I don't know if it is bad if I don't find it THAT amazing.  Yeah, the Wii is still marginally ahead of one and marginally behind another.  That to me is only "impressive" if you think of events in a vacuum.  The Wii was killing the other 2 consoles as late as a few months ago, and now, it's middle of the pack.  The HD consoles are just chugging along, minding their own business and pulling in pretty great numbers.  Then the Wii implodes from meteoric heights to come even with them, and I just feel like "amazing" is too strong a word when discussing these events.  The fact many seem to find it amazing seems to imply that you think the Wii is deserving of much less, which is interesting. 

The way I feel about it all is that the near future will be an interesting time, because this type of gen has never occured and can finish off a few ways.  There are positives for all, I'm just kind of curious to see the results more than anything.