@ endurance Hopefully the support will be better support as well. I disagree with Avinash somewhat, in that to say 3rd party are lazy for the Wii and not for the PS3 or X360, I don't think is true.
Think of it as a sport event, say football (either one, both work for the example). Put the college team up against the pro team. Who wins? The pros. Is it because the college team is lazy? No, they can play their hearts out, but just that their talent and experience just aren't at the same level as the pros.
When the Wii sales get noticability higher than the other 2, (smarter) 3rd parties will shift their better development teams to the Wii. Closer to Nintendo standard of games will come out, and the 3rd party sales will improve as well.

leo-j said: They will never take the wii seriously, look at the 3rd party attach rate on the wii compared to the ps3.

The Third Party attach rates can be highly(if not completely) attributed to poor quality and workmanship. You can't blame Nintendo or the Wii because people ignored it up until it crushed everybody else. One can only hope the Wii slapped developers in the head hard enough with it's proverbial wang to wake them up and get them to put better then their B squad on the Wii. Edit: I'd look at PS3 as more of a liability as sales are about as good % wise with honest efforts on the PS3 thus far compared to half a$$ed efforts on the Wii.

Renar said: @ endurance Hopefully the support will be better support as well. I disagree with Avinash somewhat, in that to say 3rd party are lazy for the Wii and not for the PS3 or X360, I don't think is true. Think of it as a sport event, say football (either one, both work for the example). Put the college team up against the pro team. Who wins? The pros. Is it because the college team is lazy? No, they can play their hearts out, but just that their talent and experience just aren't at the same level as the pros. When the Wii sales get noticability higher than the other 2, (smarter) 3rd parties will shift their better development teams to the Wii. Closer to Nintendo standard of games will come out, and the 3rd party sales will improve as well.

 Oh I think they are lazy on PS3 and 360 as well, its just that the standards are lower since there is no developer like Nintendo to compete with on a 360 or a PS3, so its much easier for a third party game to get its foot in the door then it would be on a Nintendo console

StarcraftManiac said: endurance said: wii will start to get more support in 08 and 09 when it will have more then 50%of the market share Wii wont get 50% marketshare. For that to happen it'll have to have reached the combined sales of the X360 and PS3... = Not gonna happen in 2008. Cuzz it ain't outselling the 2 systems combined in the most crucial time of the year (holiday season)... It'll keep floating at around 42-45% whilst the gap is widening between it's competitors.

I agree.  Too hard probably in 2008, unless production ramps up significantly and the demand is there.  Nintendo isn't one to take chances and hopes everything works out.

I wonder how much 3rd parties are planning their games around where they expect the game to sell the best.  That is, if it should sell well in NA, use X360, not in NA, use PS3, sell well worldwide, use Wii.

And one more expense item to mention for 3rd parties.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_publisher

 "When publishing for game consoles, game publishers take on the burden of a great deal of inventory risk. All significant console manufacturers since Nintendo with its NES (1985) have monopolized the manufacture of every game made for their console, and have required all publishers to pay a royalty for every game so manufactured. This royalty must be paid at the time of manufacturing, as opposed to royalty payments in almost all other industries, where royalties are paid upon actual sales of the product—and, importantly, are payable for games that did not sell to a consumer. So, if a game publisher orders one million copies of its game, but half of them do not sell, the publisher has already paid the full console manufacturer royalty on one million copies of the game, and has to eat that cost."

Who is more likely to order the 1M games?  So those X360 and PS3 games that bomb, it hurts the 3rd parties even more.  And better legs on a game have a double benefit.  You sell out the initial order eventually, and can do 2nd, 3rd orders more accurately as needed.

 

 

 

You could have had those games, but Nintendo chose to give you a cheaper console. You can't have everything, even though you think you deserve it.

Aj_habfan said: You could have had those games, but Nintendo chose to give you a cheaper console. You can't have everything, even though you think you deserve it.

I know ... What was I thinking, lower performance systems like the PS2 never saw games like Gran Theft Auto produced for them. After all, the Wii is lucky to get a game more advanced than pong ...

 

HappySqurriel said: Aj_habfan said: You could have had those games, but Nintendo chose to give you a cheaper console. You can't have everything, even though you think you deserve it. I know ... What was I thinking, lower performance systems like the PS2 never saw games like Gran Theft Auto produced for them. After all, the Wii is lucky to get a game more advanced than pong ...

 lol, yeah there is no way a system like Wii can have enough power to run the top rated games of all time...oh wait

Avinash_Tyagi said: HappySqurriel said: Aj_habfan said: You could have had those games, but Nintendo chose to give you a cheaper console. You can't have everything, even though you think you deserve it. I know ... What was I thinking, lower performance systems like the PS2 never saw games like Gran Theft Auto produced for them. After all, the Wii is lucky to get a game more advanced than pong ...    lol, yeah there is no way a system like Wii can have enough power to run the top rated games of all time...oh wait

 

Actually, it's true. For most of these new games, it would take more then a port to bring it to the Wii, they would have to redo the whole thing. PS2 was very lucky because most games were developed for it first, then brought to other consoles. If GTA 4 was made for the Wii it could be easily brought over, making you think it was as able as the other ones, like which you think about PS2.

Avinash_Tyagi said: Renar said: @ endurance Hopefully the support will be better support as well. I disagree with Avinash somewhat, in that to say 3rd party are lazy for the Wii and not for the PS3 or X360, I don't think is true. Think of it as a sport event, say football (either one, both work for the example). Put the college team up against the pro team. Who wins? The pros. Is it because the college team is lazy? No, they can play their hearts out, but just that their talent and experience just aren't at the same level as the pros. When the Wii sales get noticability higher than the other 2, (smarter) 3rd parties will shift their better development teams to the Wii. Closer to Nintendo standard of games will come out, and the 3rd party sales will improve as well.  Oh I think they are lazy on PS3 and 360 as well, its just that the standards are lower since there is no developer like Nintendo to compete with on a 360 or a PS3, so its much easier for a third party game to get its foot in the door then it would be on a Nintendo console

If they are as 'lazy' on the PS3 and 360 as well, then their companies should start to fire some of their 'lazy' employees, when it costs $15-30M+ to get a game out for them. 

But I have to disagree, since ultimately it is the buying public that decides what standards should be met and what those standards are.  That is, what makes it fun and worth wanting to play.  Enough X360 and PS3 3rd parties games are selling well, which says that those standards can be met. 

Which is why I maintain that Wii right now gets the 2nd lvl teams to develope games.  When 3rd parties see that Wii games done with flair that captures the Wii gamers fancy, make a ton of money, then they will shift their priorities.  Some are doing that now.  The question is, will they do it correctly?  Or just make very nice games that the Wii gamers don't care that much for?

 

iberz said: Vizion said: Wouldn't it be nice to see high quality games like Bioshock, Grand Theft Auto 4 and Call of Duty 4 on the Wii? Alot of people seem to think that selling lots of hardware attracts 3rd parties. Wrong! It's all about attatchment rates and the Wii in that department is quite horrendous. And it is for that reason that the 360 is attracting lot's of 3rd parties.

So, if you were running a software publisher, you'd rather get a 100% attach rate on a Gamecube release than a 25% attach on a PS2 release?

Woud you think that Gamecube is a better games market if the Gamecube had an attach rate of 8 per console while PS2 only had an attach rate of 6 per console?

Attach rates are garbage. I've never seen a number which is so meaningless be attributed so much importance.